Name: Anonymous 2014-10-05 10:37
* Now talking on #haskell-ops
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* Topic for #haskell-ops set by glguy (Tue Dec 18 17:12:59 2012)
<vanila> Requesting unbanned
<vanila> Mauke is harassing some newbie with information that isn't useful
<mauke> technically you're not banned, you're temporarily muted
<vanila> Cale copumpkin jmcarthur can you help me please?
<vanila> mauke is abusing his op to bully me for helping a beginner
<mauke> I don't think that's very nice
<mauke> <Fuuzetsu> vanila: I don't think you're helping
<mauke> I don't think what you did was helping
<vanila> mauke, I have him on /ignore because he was extremely rude to me in the past
<vanila> mauke, This is probably related to why he is saying that against me
<mauke> maybe, maybe not
<mauke> I have nothing against you personally. I just thought you were adding noise, not signal
<mauke> and at least one other person agrees, apparently
<vanila> <vanila> mauke, you are overloading him with conflicting information
<vanila> * hexagoxel_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
<vanila> <mauke> vanila: good
<vanila> You are intentionally confusing him by going on about useless information and not cooperating with others
<mauke> no, I'm trying to get him to stop talking and start thinking
<vanila> Can you unmute me now please?
<mauke> I don't see what was conflicting, though
<vanila> now can I please talk to an different op?
<dibblego> I think saying outright false things to people trying to learn is reprehensible and one's own ignorance is no excuse.
<vanila> Hi dibblego is that addressed to me
<dibblego> It is addressed to anyone who might consider the opinion of others on the matter.
<vanila> ill wait to talk to a different op
* hexagoxel (~hexagoxel@kiel-5f77b225.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined
<Saizan> mauke: this might be for another discussion but "trying to get people to think" is not always the smart choice, often it's better to elaborate about what you know instead, so people can see what you thought
<mauke> not sure how that applies here
<Saizan> i haven't read the whole thing with Aruro, but it seems it was another case of miscommunication due to lack of providing enough context to the other person
<Saizan> so the thing dragged on for a while, to the point where it gets more likely someone else is going to interfere
<mauke> I wouldn't say enough context. I think their ideas themselves were muddled
<Saizan> but that's exactly the situation where it's most useful to elaborate on them and show where and how
<Saizan> rather then prod at the mud
<mauke> eh?
<Saizan> mauke: you're doing it now too, ask an actual question rather than "eh?"
<mauke> I don't understand what you wanted Aruro to do
<mauke> ok, still not a question
<Saizan> that's still better
<Saizan> but i was talking about what you could've done, not Aruro
<mauke> I could've kicked Aruro out when they refused to explain what they meant by "property" for the third time
<Saizan> or you could've considered a couple of possibilities and explained yourself wrt to those
<mauke> looking back on this channel I'm going to disagree with all vanila said about me: "you are overloading him" (I don't think so) "with conflicting information" (conflicting how?)
<mauke> "You are intentionally confusing him" (I'm not) "by going on about useless information" (don't see that, either)
<hexagoxel> "oh, i disagree with somebody in chat, lets exert my op powers"
<hexagoxel> at least you should have warned
<vanila> <vanila> <vanila> mauke, you are overloading him with conflicting information
<vanila> <vanila> * hexagoxel_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
<vanila> <vanila> <mauke> vanila: good
<vanila> When you said good in response to you are overloading him, that means you are glad that you are managing to confuse him
<vanila> that's why I said you are intentionally confusing him
<vanila> earlier I said to him:
<vanila> <vanila> Aruro, What you described needs subtyping, but haskell doesnt' have subtyping
<vanila> <vanila> Aruro, You cannot use typeclasses for this
<mauke> hexagoxel: how?
<vanila> and then you said, uncooperatively
<vanila> <mauke> vanila: there you go again with your subtyping
<mauke> yes
<vanila> This is confusing to Aruro because people are telling him different things, and then some of those people are telling each other they are wrong
<mauke> yes
<Saizan> vanila: well, that's part of life
<mauke> so why are you telling him stuff others disagree with? :-)
<hexagoxel> mauke: grab op, say "this discussion seems ineffective, Aruro still has not explained what .. means; please stop replying"
<vanila> <mauke> Aruro is just trying to annoy people
<hexagoxel> mauke: "how?"
<hexagoxel> how what?
<vanila> This shows agian that you're not trying to help him, and explains why you'd get on against people like me who were trying to actually help him
<mauke> hexagoxel: warned
<hexagoxel> are you asking me in what way you could have warned people before applying -q's ?
<mauke> hexagoxel: yes
<mauke> well, +q's
* [hexagoxel] (~hexagoxel@kiel-5f77b225.pool.mediaWays.net): hexagoxel
* [hexagoxel] #haskell-ops #idris #haskell
* [hexagoxel] kornbluth.freenode.net :Frankfurt, Germany
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<hexagoxel> like, by saying "if you don't stop the discussion, i will consider +q's"
<dibblego> I assume, "there you go with subtyping again" is in response to the fact that it is false and that other false things were being said.
<mauke> vanila: it could also be an attempt to make Aruro realise they're coming across as an asshat
<dibblego> which, is extremely unhelpful, because it is not obvious to a learner that it is false
<vanila> 04:25:53 <mauke> I think you don't know Haskell and you're making shit up
<dibblego> it may not be the best way to deal with falsehoods though
<Saizan> dibblego: it's not really false though
<vanila> talking like this is harmful to beginners, he is asking because he doesn't know haskell and wants to learn
<vanila> Hi dibblego, it was rude earlier when you were implying i said something "outright wrong" but being cryptic and standoffish about it so that it's impossible for me to defend myself
<hexagoxel> why does an op not know how to warn people? this is really disappointing.
<dibblego> no, I understand and take that specific point back -- it is not completely false
<mauke> <vanila> Aruro, You cannot use typeclasses for this <mauke> depending on what exactly "this" is <mauke> which everyone just kind of assumes <vanila> Aruro, What you described needs subtyping, but haskell doesnt' have subtyping <mauke> same for "subtyping" <mauke> vanila: yes, that's your preconceived notion about what Aruro wants
<vanila> I definitely think mauke abused his op to bully me, im upset to be pushed out of the discussion and silenced without being told to stop or anything
<mauke> that was what happened before the "again with your subtyping" comment
<mauke> looks like my warnings were too subtle
<vanila> mauke, I taught Aruro earlier about the different between :: and ==, and that his Vowel subtype of Char is not expressible in haskell
<mauke> his "Vowel" was not a subtype
<Saizan> mauke: you generally say too little for people to easily understand what you mean
<mauke> Saizan: point
<mauke> vanila: you based your whole explanation on the subtyping idea, with no justification. no one else thought it was about subtyping either, which is why they didn't want to "cooperate"
<vanila> mauke, by saying "no one else" you are inventing a fiction where everyone in the world disagrees with me - and is on your side
<vanila> this is not a rational discussion, you are continuating to be excessively authoritarian and opressive
<mauke> hmm... no, I'm not
<mauke> "no one else thinks it was about subtyping" doesn't imply they're actively disagreeing with you
<hexagoxel> mauke: could you give an example of any warning to vanila that was too subtle?
<mauke> hexagoxel: the stuff I pasted, then the "again with your subtyping" thing vanila pasted, then the Fuuzetsu thing
<Saizan> mauke: yeah, that is really not a warning that you're going to use your op, that's mostly a warning you're getting fed up :)
<hexagoxel> "stuff i pasted" is very specific
<hexagoxel> and i don't agree, that is no warning, subtle or not
<mauke> Saizan: yeah, I don't consider +q to be a big thing
<Saizan> it kinda is though
<vanila> http://ircbrowse.net/browse/haskell?id=19064502×tamp=1410994944#t1410994944 This is why I don't get any messags from Fuuzetsu
<mauke> anyway, I agreed with Fuuzetsu that you were doing more harm than good at that point
<hexagoxel> whether vanila's explanation in the direction of subtyping has justification also does not matter. people say things on irc without justification. that's no reason for op actions
<vanila> someone that Fuuzetsu says which I didn't even see does not count as a warning from an op
<vanila> I can justify that my explanation wrt. subtyping is correct
<mauke> I saw it
<mauke> vanila: that's bit late now
<vanila> that is why I was trying to help this beginner in #haskell by telling them about it
<Saizan> mauke: anyhow, i'd strongly suggest for next time to take the time to say something like "if you want ... then ..., if you want .. instead then ..." so that the situation is resolved faster and you can address the points of the people assuming a specific wanting too
<vanila> mauke, You cannot say this to me - you are the one who reacted too quickly
<mauke> vanila: I reacted too slowly
<vanila> You could have asked me to justify it rather than unfairly silencing me without any warning
<vanila> If you did not understand what I was saying I would have no qualms explaining it
<mauke> I understood, I just think you're wrong
<vanila> similar with dibblego except it was clear from his cryptic standoffish way ofspeaking he didn't want to engage with me
<hexagoxel> mauke: you don't +q people because they are wrong
<mauke> especially in retrospective where apparently Data.Set is a good solution
<vanila> I don't mind if you thnk im wrong, I am always open to discussion and correcting mistakes
<vanila> I am saying that you treated me unfairly
<mauke> hexagoxel: no, I +q people when they are persistently wrong and try to teach newbies
<vanila> You abused your op to bully me into silence when all I was doing is helping a beginner, who you had given up on and were confusing him on purpose with by overloading and conflicting with other people helping
<Saizan> vanila: i don't believe mauke had any intention of confusing him
<mauke> "given up on" is debatable
<vanila> mauke, I maintain that I was not wrong - your subjective judgement about this isn't enough to silence someone
<mauke> I wasn't confusing him on purpose
<mauke> I wasn't overloading him
<vanila> <vanila> <mauke> Aruro is just trying to annoy people
<vanila> this is where you gave up on him
<mauke> I was "conflicting" with your "help" because I don't think what you said was helping
<vanila> You made it clear you don't think he is interested in learning, he is just trying to annoy people
<mauke> vanila: don't explain my thought process to me
<dibblego> or mine
<vanila> dibblego, am I wrong? Why would you speak to me so rudely otherwise?
<vanila> dibblego, I think you made it very clear you just wanted to make a blanket statement about me, in an indirect enough way as to obviate yourself from backing it up
<dibblego> this is off the wall
<mauke> "glguy, last time I asked for help there shapr was very nasty me and after I left to escape it he continued to insult me in here"
<mauke> yeah, I wonder why all those people are so nasty to you
<mauke> (sarcasm)
<mauke> shapr, Fuuzetsu, mauke, dibblego, ...
<vanila> now you are blaming the victim
<mauke> no, I'm not
<vanila> bring up this bad history is probabl a good way to escalate this into getting me in more trouble
<dibblego> at no point was I "nasty" to anybody — I made a statement, then another incorrect one, then a retraction
<vanila> that's a clever but evil way to continue to bully me
<mauke> vanila: ? you brought it up
<dibblego> I am not going to fall for this persecution complex nonsense
<dibblego> I'm out, good luck with it
<vanila> <dibblego> I think saying outright false things to people trying to learn is reprehensible and one's own ignorance is no excuse.
<vanila> <vanila> Hi dibblego is that addressed to me
<vanila> <dibblego> It is addressed to anyone who might consider the opinion of others on the matter.
<vanila> I was referring to this dibblego
<mauke> yeah, I also disagree with the "bully" thing
<dibblego> yeah sure bye
<dibblego> mauke is being way too generous with +q
<mauke> temporary +q - it only lasted like 10 minutes
<vanila> mauke, telling me "have a nice life" is basically a threat, and then following me into another channel to tell me "be nice.. or else" rubs salt in the wound.
<mauke> it's not a threat
<mauke> wtf?
<Saizan> vanila: you are reading way too much negativity into those
<vanila> Saizan, after being treated the way he treated me it came across very nasty
<mauke> I was disagreeing with you but I could still sort of see your point
<mauke> but now that I've read the chat log you linked, I've lost all sympathy
<vanila> mauke, as I said "bring up this bad history is probabl a good way to escalate this into getting me in more trouble" "a clever but evil way to continue to bully me"
<mauke> yes, you said that WHEN YOU YOURSELF BROUGHT IT UP
<vanila> it's great that you were able to bring up history about me to slander me into being wrong no matter how justified I am
<mauke> hello? is this thing on?
<Saizan> vanila: really, try to read stuff more positively, it's hard to really tell the tone on irc but there's no reason to assume the worst
<vanila> ty Saizan
* hexagoxel (~hexagoxel@kiel-5f77b225.pool.mediaWays.net) has left ("Ex-Chat")
<mauke> heh, reading backwards it looks like that was another case of vanila giving bad advice to beginners
<mauke> vanila: you didn't even give Fuuzetsu a warning before calling for ops
* Topic for #haskell-ops is: [#haskell moderators : http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/IRC_channel/Management - Users are welcome to join for specific discussion but asked not to idle ]
* Topic for #haskell-ops set by glguy (Tue Dec 18 17:12:59 2012)
<vanila> Requesting unbanned
<vanila> Mauke is harassing some newbie with information that isn't useful
<mauke> technically you're not banned, you're temporarily muted
<vanila> Cale copumpkin jmcarthur can you help me please?
<vanila> mauke is abusing his op to bully me for helping a beginner
<mauke> I don't think that's very nice
<mauke> <Fuuzetsu> vanila: I don't think you're helping
<mauke> I don't think what you did was helping
<vanila> mauke, I have him on /ignore because he was extremely rude to me in the past
<vanila> mauke, This is probably related to why he is saying that against me
<mauke> maybe, maybe not
<mauke> I have nothing against you personally. I just thought you were adding noise, not signal
<mauke> and at least one other person agrees, apparently
<vanila> <vanila> mauke, you are overloading him with conflicting information
<vanila> * hexagoxel_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
<vanila> <mauke> vanila: good
<vanila> You are intentionally confusing him by going on about useless information and not cooperating with others
<mauke> no, I'm trying to get him to stop talking and start thinking
<vanila> Can you unmute me now please?
<mauke> I don't see what was conflicting, though
<vanila> now can I please talk to an different op?
<dibblego> I think saying outright false things to people trying to learn is reprehensible and one's own ignorance is no excuse.
<vanila> Hi dibblego is that addressed to me
<dibblego> It is addressed to anyone who might consider the opinion of others on the matter.
<vanila> ill wait to talk to a different op
* hexagoxel (~hexagoxel@kiel-5f77b225.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined
<Saizan> mauke: this might be for another discussion but "trying to get people to think" is not always the smart choice, often it's better to elaborate about what you know instead, so people can see what you thought
<mauke> not sure how that applies here
<Saizan> i haven't read the whole thing with Aruro, but it seems it was another case of miscommunication due to lack of providing enough context to the other person
<Saizan> so the thing dragged on for a while, to the point where it gets more likely someone else is going to interfere
<mauke> I wouldn't say enough context. I think their ideas themselves were muddled
<Saizan> but that's exactly the situation where it's most useful to elaborate on them and show where and how
<Saizan> rather then prod at the mud
<mauke> eh?
<Saizan> mauke: you're doing it now too, ask an actual question rather than "eh?"
<mauke> I don't understand what you wanted Aruro to do
<mauke> ok, still not a question
<Saizan> that's still better
<Saizan> but i was talking about what you could've done, not Aruro
<mauke> I could've kicked Aruro out when they refused to explain what they meant by "property" for the third time
<Saizan> or you could've considered a couple of possibilities and explained yourself wrt to those
<mauke> looking back on this channel I'm going to disagree with all vanila said about me: "you are overloading him" (I don't think so) "with conflicting information" (conflicting how?)
<mauke> "You are intentionally confusing him" (I'm not) "by going on about useless information" (don't see that, either)
<hexagoxel> "oh, i disagree with somebody in chat, lets exert my op powers"
<hexagoxel> at least you should have warned
<vanila> <vanila> <vanila> mauke, you are overloading him with conflicting information
<vanila> <vanila> * hexagoxel_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
<vanila> <vanila> <mauke> vanila: good
<vanila> When you said good in response to you are overloading him, that means you are glad that you are managing to confuse him
<vanila> that's why I said you are intentionally confusing him
<vanila> earlier I said to him:
<vanila> <vanila> Aruro, What you described needs subtyping, but haskell doesnt' have subtyping
<vanila> <vanila> Aruro, You cannot use typeclasses for this
<mauke> hexagoxel: how?
<vanila> and then you said, uncooperatively
<vanila> <mauke> vanila: there you go again with your subtyping
<mauke> yes
<vanila> This is confusing to Aruro because people are telling him different things, and then some of those people are telling each other they are wrong
<mauke> yes
<Saizan> vanila: well, that's part of life
<mauke> so why are you telling him stuff others disagree with? :-)
<hexagoxel> mauke: grab op, say "this discussion seems ineffective, Aruro still has not explained what .. means; please stop replying"
<vanila> <mauke> Aruro is just trying to annoy people
<hexagoxel> mauke: "how?"
<hexagoxel> how what?
<vanila> This shows agian that you're not trying to help him, and explains why you'd get on against people like me who were trying to actually help him
<mauke> hexagoxel: warned
<hexagoxel> are you asking me in what way you could have warned people before applying -q's ?
<mauke> hexagoxel: yes
<mauke> well, +q's
* [hexagoxel] (~hexagoxel@kiel-5f77b225.pool.mediaWays.net): hexagoxel
* [hexagoxel] #haskell-ops #idris #haskell
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<hexagoxel> like, by saying "if you don't stop the discussion, i will consider +q's"
<dibblego> I assume, "there you go with subtyping again" is in response to the fact that it is false and that other false things were being said.
<mauke> vanila: it could also be an attempt to make Aruro realise they're coming across as an asshat
<dibblego> which, is extremely unhelpful, because it is not obvious to a learner that it is false
<vanila> 04:25:53 <mauke> I think you don't know Haskell and you're making shit up
<dibblego> it may not be the best way to deal with falsehoods though
<Saizan> dibblego: it's not really false though
<vanila> talking like this is harmful to beginners, he is asking because he doesn't know haskell and wants to learn
<vanila> Hi dibblego, it was rude earlier when you were implying i said something "outright wrong" but being cryptic and standoffish about it so that it's impossible for me to defend myself
<hexagoxel> why does an op not know how to warn people? this is really disappointing.
<dibblego> no, I understand and take that specific point back -- it is not completely false
<mauke> <vanila> Aruro, You cannot use typeclasses for this <mauke> depending on what exactly "this" is <mauke> which everyone just kind of assumes <vanila> Aruro, What you described needs subtyping, but haskell doesnt' have subtyping <mauke> same for "subtyping" <mauke> vanila: yes, that's your preconceived notion about what Aruro wants
<vanila> I definitely think mauke abused his op to bully me, im upset to be pushed out of the discussion and silenced without being told to stop or anything
<mauke> that was what happened before the "again with your subtyping" comment
<mauke> looks like my warnings were too subtle
<vanila> mauke, I taught Aruro earlier about the different between :: and ==, and that his Vowel subtype of Char is not expressible in haskell
<mauke> his "Vowel" was not a subtype
<Saizan> mauke: you generally say too little for people to easily understand what you mean
<mauke> Saizan: point
<mauke> vanila: you based your whole explanation on the subtyping idea, with no justification. no one else thought it was about subtyping either, which is why they didn't want to "cooperate"
<vanila> mauke, by saying "no one else" you are inventing a fiction where everyone in the world disagrees with me - and is on your side
<vanila> this is not a rational discussion, you are continuating to be excessively authoritarian and opressive
<mauke> hmm... no, I'm not
<mauke> "no one else thinks it was about subtyping" doesn't imply they're actively disagreeing with you
<hexagoxel> mauke: could you give an example of any warning to vanila that was too subtle?
<mauke> hexagoxel: the stuff I pasted, then the "again with your subtyping" thing vanila pasted, then the Fuuzetsu thing
<Saizan> mauke: yeah, that is really not a warning that you're going to use your op, that's mostly a warning you're getting fed up :)
<hexagoxel> "stuff i pasted" is very specific
<hexagoxel> and i don't agree, that is no warning, subtle or not
<mauke> Saizan: yeah, I don't consider +q to be a big thing
<Saizan> it kinda is though
<vanila> http://ircbrowse.net/browse/haskell?id=19064502×tamp=1410994944#t1410994944 This is why I don't get any messags from Fuuzetsu
<mauke> anyway, I agreed with Fuuzetsu that you were doing more harm than good at that point
<hexagoxel> whether vanila's explanation in the direction of subtyping has justification also does not matter. people say things on irc without justification. that's no reason for op actions
<vanila> someone that Fuuzetsu says which I didn't even see does not count as a warning from an op
<vanila> I can justify that my explanation wrt. subtyping is correct
<mauke> I saw it
<mauke> vanila: that's bit late now
<vanila> that is why I was trying to help this beginner in #haskell by telling them about it
<Saizan> mauke: anyhow, i'd strongly suggest for next time to take the time to say something like "if you want ... then ..., if you want .. instead then ..." so that the situation is resolved faster and you can address the points of the people assuming a specific wanting too
<vanila> mauke, You cannot say this to me - you are the one who reacted too quickly
<mauke> vanila: I reacted too slowly
<vanila> You could have asked me to justify it rather than unfairly silencing me without any warning
<vanila> If you did not understand what I was saying I would have no qualms explaining it
<mauke> I understood, I just think you're wrong
<vanila> similar with dibblego except it was clear from his cryptic standoffish way ofspeaking he didn't want to engage with me
<hexagoxel> mauke: you don't +q people because they are wrong
<mauke> especially in retrospective where apparently Data.Set is a good solution
<vanila> I don't mind if you thnk im wrong, I am always open to discussion and correcting mistakes
<vanila> I am saying that you treated me unfairly
<mauke> hexagoxel: no, I +q people when they are persistently wrong and try to teach newbies
<vanila> You abused your op to bully me into silence when all I was doing is helping a beginner, who you had given up on and were confusing him on purpose with by overloading and conflicting with other people helping
<Saizan> vanila: i don't believe mauke had any intention of confusing him
<mauke> "given up on" is debatable
<vanila> mauke, I maintain that I was not wrong - your subjective judgement about this isn't enough to silence someone
<mauke> I wasn't confusing him on purpose
<mauke> I wasn't overloading him
<vanila> <vanila> <mauke> Aruro is just trying to annoy people
<vanila> this is where you gave up on him
<mauke> I was "conflicting" with your "help" because I don't think what you said was helping
<vanila> You made it clear you don't think he is interested in learning, he is just trying to annoy people
<mauke> vanila: don't explain my thought process to me
<dibblego> or mine
<vanila> dibblego, am I wrong? Why would you speak to me so rudely otherwise?
<vanila> dibblego, I think you made it very clear you just wanted to make a blanket statement about me, in an indirect enough way as to obviate yourself from backing it up
<dibblego> this is off the wall
<mauke> "glguy, last time I asked for help there shapr was very nasty me and after I left to escape it he continued to insult me in here"
<mauke> yeah, I wonder why all those people are so nasty to you
<mauke> (sarcasm)
<mauke> shapr, Fuuzetsu, mauke, dibblego, ...
<vanila> now you are blaming the victim
<mauke> no, I'm not
<vanila> bring up this bad history is probabl a good way to escalate this into getting me in more trouble
<dibblego> at no point was I "nasty" to anybody — I made a statement, then another incorrect one, then a retraction
<vanila> that's a clever but evil way to continue to bully me
<mauke> vanila: ? you brought it up
<dibblego> I am not going to fall for this persecution complex nonsense
<dibblego> I'm out, good luck with it
<vanila> <dibblego> I think saying outright false things to people trying to learn is reprehensible and one's own ignorance is no excuse.
<vanila> <vanila> Hi dibblego is that addressed to me
<vanila> <dibblego> It is addressed to anyone who might consider the opinion of others on the matter.
<vanila> I was referring to this dibblego
<mauke> yeah, I also disagree with the "bully" thing
<dibblego> yeah sure bye
<dibblego> mauke is being way too generous with +q
<mauke> temporary +q - it only lasted like 10 minutes
<vanila> mauke, telling me "have a nice life" is basically a threat, and then following me into another channel to tell me "be nice.. or else" rubs salt in the wound.
<mauke> it's not a threat
<mauke> wtf?
<Saizan> vanila: you are reading way too much negativity into those
<vanila> Saizan, after being treated the way he treated me it came across very nasty
<mauke> I was disagreeing with you but I could still sort of see your point
<mauke> but now that I've read the chat log you linked, I've lost all sympathy
<vanila> mauke, as I said "bring up this bad history is probabl a good way to escalate this into getting me in more trouble" "a clever but evil way to continue to bully me"
<mauke> yes, you said that WHEN YOU YOURSELF BROUGHT IT UP
<vanila> it's great that you were able to bring up history about me to slander me into being wrong no matter how justified I am
<mauke> hello? is this thing on?
<Saizan> vanila: really, try to read stuff more positively, it's hard to really tell the tone on irc but there's no reason to assume the worst
<vanila> ty Saizan
* hexagoxel (~hexagoxel@kiel-5f77b225.pool.mediaWays.net) has left ("Ex-Chat")
<mauke> heh, reading backwards it looks like that was another case of vanila giving bad advice to beginners
<mauke> vanila: you didn't even give Fuuzetsu a warning before calling for ops