Return Styles: Pseud0ch, Terminal, Valhalla, NES, Geocities, Blue Moon. Entire thread

Ideal memory management in your dream PL.

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-21 8:06

Imagine you are designing a practical relatively low-level programming language to use instead of C++. What approach to memory management would you use?

In case someone asks, ``what is wrong with manly manual memory management in C++?'', I would briefly explain my disdain towards it. C++ strives to allow for efficient programs to be written, yet you have to jump through hoops and remember 30 different things if you want to avoid inefficiences C++ compilers inject into your application code. Where C would hit the spot with passing of pointers, C++ programmers need to know about RVO and const references and rvalues and perfect forwarding and noexcept declaration of copy constructors (why even have copy constructors anyway‽ how sane is having such thing‽) and reference collapsing rules. All just to prevent compiler from inserting procedures that needlessly copy your data multiple times here and there.

Instead of fixing a conceptually shitty design the committee adds 5 even more shitty things, each with its own semantics, each designed to work around one compiler/stdlib deficiency or another. Each has to be used manually.

So C++ programmers spend their brain cycles on recalling hundreds of shitty techniques while churning out code doing stuff which would be trivial for a saner language compiler to infer, instead of focusing on actual functionality.

Since it is lunch time where I work, I want to fantasize about a language/compiler which has most or all benefits of fast memory management (no GC), takes modern hardware into account, and doesn't fucking get in your way every time you pass a string to a function.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-12 11:40

>>80
Only it's no good, you can't install evince and many other programs without bundled systemd.
I really enjoyed Debian all these years - 10 years already? time runs so fast - because it went so well with my mentality, and will continue using it, never upgrading and compiling stuff I need myself until I run out of patience and switch to Mac because there would be no point in sticking with gnoo/leenooks anymore.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-12 21:52

>>81
But evince sucks donkey ass. Upgrading the non-systemd using programs is easy.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-14 15:02

>>82
I used it before Mozilla rolled out the pure JS renderer of PDF, so I read pdfs with firefox now.
Tried kpdf and xpdf, both were terribly annoying.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-16 16:55

>>16,19
Regarding ATS: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/26958969
Why was the ATS language dropped from the Computer Language Benchmarks Game?
Unfortunately, there was no effective way to make sure that contributed ATS programs were comparable to the other programs that had been contributed. There are not enough ATS experts.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-16 17:33

>>84
That means YOU have a chance to become an Expert ATS Programmer way before it gets fashionable.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-16 18:01

>>83
Okular is the best, if you don't mind the KDE dependency.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-16 18:04

>>81
Where are you getting this?

Evince Dependencies
Required
adwaita-icon-theme-3.14.1, gsettings-desktop-schemas-3.14.1, GTK+-3.14.5, and Itstool-2.0.2

http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/view/svn/gnome/evince.html

Name: ebins 2014-11-16 19:18

ebins

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-16 20:13

>>83
evince might be a total load of shit, but do you really consider pdf.jizz any better?

Have you ever considered killing yourself back to Reddit?

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-16 20:15

>>89
No. And yes, Firefox is better than kpdf and xpdf. Evince was better than firefox.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-16 20:18

>>90
Try Zathura or Chrome's PDF reader. Both are way better than pdf.js.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-16 20:48

>>86 is right though. Okular is the bomb. I have even used it on windows.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-16 21:27

I am using only Okular.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-16 21:40

>>89-91
Evince and zathura both use Popped for their PDF backend. Poppler itself is derived from xpdf, so the capabilities of all three applications are nearly equivalent.

It's very unfortunate that Google and Mozilla failed to agree on a common framework to replace NPAPI. Between Google's closed source Pepper PDF blob and Mozilla's non-performant PDF.js, PDF functionality in contemporary open source browsers has regressed terribly.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-16 23:36

>>94
PDF functionality in contemporary open source browsers has regressed terribly.

Has it really? It's always been garbage in browsers but I don't think that's the right place for the viewer. Google and Mozilla put them there because nearly everyone has Adobe's or another vulnerable viewer installed.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-17 1:45

>>95
If built-in viewers aren't approaching feature parity as the old NPAPI viewers accumulate security vulnerabilities and generally bitrot, then yes, I would call that a regression overall.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-17 7:12

>>96
Never had any problems with pdfjs. The only thing that may be missing that I might use is ability to fill out forms. Other than that, everything I encountered rendered perfectly, and quickly enough.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-17 7:35

>>96
That's not what regression means.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-17 12:14

>>97
pdf.js always maxes out one core of my latest gen Intel CPU and renders everything like shit. It's Javashit too. I don't understand how anyone considers this gigantic hack a good thing.

I'd rather download the files and open them with my local reader.

Name: Cudder !MhMRSATORI 2014-11-17 12:19

>>1-50
"Those who sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither."

>>83-97
If I want to read a PDF I'll download it and open it in something else.

>>97
Forms is bullshit. Just open the file in a PDF editor. Use the text tool to add text in the right places. Save it and you're done.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-17 19:12

>>100
PDF editor
linux
I see what you did there

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-17 19:12

>>100
"Those who sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither."
You're right.

Actually, I'm sick to death of the tyranny of the C calling convention, the inability to goto from one function to another, the overhead of reinterpret casts when I need to treat an int as a float, the difficulty of accessing individual bytes in a word when the CPU can do that just fine. I'm sick of address spaces being isolated from each other so I have to jump through hoops to make IPC work. I'm sick of having to go through unoptimized proprietary drivers just to control my hard drive and sound card. I'm sick of making compromises for someone else's putrid worthless tech. The computer industry is a tiramisu of crippled leaky abstractions made of many different layers of bullshit. I deserve better than this.

I am a fucking programmer. I am the creator of thousands of programs. I know what I'm doing. The computer shall do exactly as I tell it and never argue with its god. It is mine to dominate and use. Not Google's. Not Apple's. Not AMD's. Not some fucking patent office. Kiss my ass. Everything they've made is a crime against me, and I'm done with it.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-17 19:18

>>99
The thing is, with Evince gone, there are no local readers...
Okular is bloated unusable shit. Seriously, how is it even possible to fuck up navigation that badly? Not to mention the handful of shitty features nobody ever uses. Plus overall KDE ugliness, like it was designed for a kindergarten.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-17 19:28

>>103
Evince is not gone. it doesn't depend on systemd. Except if you're on a shit system like Debbie.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-17 19:32

>>103
Plus overall KDE ugliness
funny, okular on my system is exactly as ugly as the pdf. there is nothing else in the window, not even the titlebar.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-18 2:47

>>102
This hit deep. For too long I've been hoping at best to retain the option to use something that doesn't explicitly fuck me over. But what else can I hope for? When complexity rises as time goes on, how can you maintain your personal audit of your computer? At some point you need to accept the untrustworthy work of others if you're to use a computer at all.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-18 4:43

>>106
complexity
Not a problem if you don't have a low iq ahhahahahah nigger

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-18 4:50

>>102
I'm sick of address spaces being isolated from each other so I have to jump through hoops to make IPC work.

1995 called; they want their pony back.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-18 9:09

>>108
You were still doing real mode in 1995? What are you poor?

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-18 14:32

>>109
Page remapping isn't free, either.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-18 17:09

>>110
If you have less physical RAM than what your program is using, what business do you have trying to operate a computer?

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-18 17:23

>>107
Low IQ does not necessarily mean low intelligence, you idiot.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-18 18:04

>>112
That's literally exactly what it means. Unless you're basing your definition of ``IQ'' on some flawed IQ test.

Name: Huskellfaggot 2014-11-18 18:08

>>113
IQ has been considered a bad way to measure intelligence for a while now.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-18 19:04

>>114
Yeah, by SJWs who want to turn the world into a "safe space"/hugbox for weaklings who blame their problems on others. IQ measures actual brain capacity. That's why it's called IQ.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-18 19:20

>>115
So if I call my penis "The Ultimate Penetrator", you'll agree to get penetrated by it?

IQ measures only the ability to solve logical puzzles. It doesn't measure expertise, experience, cognitive abilities, stress-endurance, creativity, erudition, etc etc - i.e. all those things that are present in truly intelligent people.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-18 19:25

>>115
SJWs
Stupid Jewish Whites?

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-18 21:13

>>117
You can't be Jewish and white.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-18 21:20

>>118
Nah, I've seen ash that was pretty white.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-20 7:39

So we're all agreed then: C gets it right?

Newer Posts
Don't change these.
Name: Email:
Entire Thread Thread List