Can we fucking wake up here sheeple? We need a SchemeBBS. We need to restore all of prog.db in it. This regex crap the admin does is no good right now for the job.
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Anonymous2015-05-26 16:21
>>12 Because we are constrained by the HTML/JS/CSS/BBCode, the layout of the website, et cetera. Consider this:
Progrider should serve only the raw content of the posts, on demand of the client, which may or may not be a web browser. I am talking about a programmable programming BBS (that makes sense for us, doesn't it?).
It's very troublesome to change the order the threads are shown, for example. Maybe someone wants to view threads per creation date instead of last post. It's also stupid that you have to scroll 100 screens in order to find the 5 latest posts that have been made to this website.
That's why I believe individual posts would be better. It would also get rid us of the "whom are you quoting" dude. Imagine, if >>4 meant literally a single post ID. Threads would literally be connected graphs.
What if someone wants to write an OpenGL client where you are a little spaceship travelling in space, and posts would be stars? Of course this is obviously not handy to use, but it is sure an impressive visualizaton of the bbs. Maybe someone wanted to write an emacs script so that he/she can read progrider from inside emacs. As it is, it's god-awful to do this. What if we want to get rid of BBCode? That's easy too. All you have to do is write a client where you parse & visualize posts differently.
Of course it all rests on the fact each post is a different file, which means you need some protocol for rapid GETs (i.e. to view a thread of 1000 posts would mean to download 1000 files). I'm not an expert but I guess nginx is not made for this.
Seriously, don't we need something more programmable than this old piece of shit?
>>15 I agree that raw data should be served somewhere so we don't have to use a crappy web interface. Ideally, you could query new posts since $DATE, so you could maintain a local copy and display it however you wish, /prog/ isn't that big after all.
The rest is complete nonsense and unrelated to whether posts are files or not. You are proposing some unholy hybrid abomination between Reddit and a mailing list.
It would also get rid us of the "whom are you quoting" dude.
Why not just make an API? It can be in JSON format or something similar which can then be parsed in your programming language of choice. After that, you can interpret or do whatever else you want with it. Also, the "who are you quoting" meme needs to die.
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Anonymous2015-05-26 18:37
#### SchemeBBS: protocol version 1
## Introduction: The SchemeBBS server works as a regular TCP server. It is communicated to and responds with s-expressions.
## Errors If a query fails the server well return (error <e>) where the form e contains some information about the problem.
## Posts: Posts are assoc lists of the following form:
all these fields must be present except reply, which is optional. clients should ignore extra unknown fields.
## Commands:
(version) ;=> 1
(get <int>) ;=> returns the post of that id or (error "No such post") if there is no post of that id.
(post <assoc-list>) ;=> the assoc list should be a post without the date, if a client sends date it will be ignored. The server should return the post id on success.
(posts> <int>) ;=> return a list of all posts whose id is larger in ascending order of post id.
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Anonymous2015-05-26 18:43
>>20 And making a script that interacts with said API would be the rite of passage for every potential /prog/lodite? Great! I've always wanted this place to be filled with appers and web devs!
;; make-post creates the server post from the client post (define (make-post post) (list (cons 'id (index)) (cons 'date (current-seconds)) ;; no (reply . <int>) yet (assoc 'post post)))
;; post takes the server post and simply appends it to post-list ;; also incrementing post-count (define (post alist) (begin (set! post-list (cons (make-post alist) post-list)) (set! post-count (+ 1 post-count))))
>>29 but we are defining things, not deffing things
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Anonymous2015-05-26 20:01
the easiest way to do this is to write a fastcgi wrapper around some embeddable scheme you're complicating things, just use SIG alert and fork to timeout and limit resources
now we just need a little interpreter to connect between this and >>27
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Anonymous2015-05-26 22:29
Heres a rough explanation
a client connects to the server then it just sends s-expression in plaintext (e.g. (version) to find server version, (post "blah blah") t opost a message) and the server replies in plaintext its essentialy a remote REPL, where your limited to very basic text board functions (listing posts, posting etc.) not general computation
If you actually get dubs, someone post em so I can check em please
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You, sir, are an idiot.2015-05-30 1:31
You, sir, are an idiot.
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Anonymous2015-05-30 1:37
>>45 Alas, once again my blazingly apt and viciously terse utterances get overtly forced by idiots enthralled by their power. I'm like the lead researcher on new shitposting phrases over here. *sigh*
>>46,47 Been there, done that. Some of my shitposts were exported to /jp/, which wasn't so bad, but then someone put them on /g/. Countless minutes of work, ruined. It's like feeding steak to a dog.
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Anonymous2015-06-05 20:08
Bumping this thread because I'm still working on a FastCGI wrapper (described in >>31, even though I'm pretty sure now this person was being sarcastic) around chibi-scheme. I'm not a grand wizard or anything but it is fun. Like, too much fun.
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Anonymous2015-06-05 21:50
>>50 Wrappers are inherently shit. Just adds more abstraction and complexity.
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Anonymous2015-06-05 21:55
>>51 Then you're doing it wrong. Abstraction should be used to reduce complexity.
Just give me the stupid API already I want to do nothing whatsoever with it.
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>>50,532015-06-08 19:40
I checked it into the Fossil repo, under schemebbs-fcgi/ (didn't want to cramp the style of the Racket-only guys).
I do not claim to be an EXPERT PROGRAMMER. Comments and derision are welcome.
>>43,65 I'd love to but I need to spin up a VPS that I can lock down (and attempt to separate from everything I have my name attached to) first.
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Anonymous2015-06-08 19:48
dubs
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Anonymous2015-06-09 4:43
>>66 Tor hidden service on a VM where all network connections are forced into Tor. Or just use a linux box, run from an unprivileged process, and use iptables to force all traffic through tor.
Why? You mean so that just in case the box is compromised, they can only access the network via Tor?
I'm seriously considering a hidden service as the budget option. Routing all the traffic through Tor seems like overkill though
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Anonymous2015-06-09 20:11
Tor
They've hacked SilkRoad. Tor is compromized.
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Anonymous2015-06-09 21:07
>>70 Nope, they compromized the human. Actually, the guy was pretty stupid.
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Anonymous2015-06-10 3:41
You mean so that just in case the box is compromised, they can only access the network via Tor?
Yes. Don't allow phoning home.
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>>50,53,692015-06-15 18:20
Bumping this thread because I'm still working on SchemeBBS slowly.
I'm adding a facility in C to save/load posts to/from local Redis DB--which will be exposed to scheme as two simple functions, one that saves individual posts as s-expressions as they come in and one to load all the posts in the database into memory.
I've configured a hidden service and once the saving/loading is done (so even if someone figures out how to crash the long-running FCGI posts will persist) I think I will invite people to test.
The only other ideas I've heard for persistence involved other DBs that I don't like as much, flat files, and writing a kernel module to export/import the raw memory of the scheme environment (pretty sure this was a joke, and if it's not I wouldn't know where to begin doing this). Any others are welcome.
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Anonymous2015-06-15 18:23
As soon as someone puts it online, I'm going to send the indefinite string:
>>77 I'm fairly certain that such a request will never be forwarded by the webserver via the FastCGI protocol. Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong.
>>80 The actual code that deals with the database will be decoupled from the code that will be exposed to scheme, so feel free to write your own engine. I'm going to use Redis, though.
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Anonymous2015-06-15 20:31
I think first order of things should be to write something that can replace the current progrider, but has a more "decentralized" backend.
So it could in theory connect to (trusted) hosts in some way and form one mega-chan. people need to be convinced of the possibility (and awesomeness) of this reality, that is the first part.
we'll need a good data model: what is the structure of the messages that will flow around in this mega chan. I propose that there are two messages: one used to create an entity type, and one to create entities. that is the second part.
then, once we have this foundation in place we can (ourselves) create structures on top of this; with clients we write ourselves to interact with the structures of our choosing, but everything is anonymously hosted "in the mega chan".
if we get that running; we write HTML5 crap frontends for it so bigger chans can join.
>>82 Unless you can contribute code, I'm simply not smart enough to make anything distributed like you're describing. Don't you have your own thread for this? I'm talking about http://bbs.progrider.org/prog/read/1433248364, you may want to post in that thread if it wasn't you to begin with.
P.S. I'm not trying to ``replace'' anything, and I also don't have any deep-seated emotional issues with censorship or security on the Internet--you aren't entitled to say whatever you want on someone else's website IMO. But feel free to do whatever you want with the code that has been posted.
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Anonymous2015-06-15 21:54
yeah 82 has some cool ideas but they don't fit in schemebbs prject which is just a easy thing for fun - would love to see that happen maybe after this?
The biological fact of race and the myth of 'race' should be distinguished. For all practical social purposes 'race' is not so much a biological phenomenon as a social myth. The myth of 'race' has created an enormous amount of human and social damage. In recent years, it has taken a heavy toll in human lives, and caused untold suffering
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Anonymous2015-06-16 1:00
Rule 1488 of /prog/: All improvement ideas and rewrite proposals eventually converge to an incomplete subset of DistBB.
As seen on C2.com, the TV Tropes-like programming meme database made by your bros at /r/programming!
>>83 >>84 Yes that other thread was me, I was picking up on >>56. I can contribute code for days; but wish to see more involvement first.
For the record; I do have deep seated emotional issues w.r.t. privacy and censorship.
We're losing the war against the SJW. They took Tumblr, 4chan and Reddit already. I'm not going to say those places where nice to begin with, but if we want a better net for our children we better start building it (preferably in such a way as to take away power from the admins/moderators/hosts and giving it to the peeple).
>>87 Noted and agreed, I got ahead of myself there.
if we want a better net for our children we better start building it (preferably in such a way as to take away power from the admins/moderators/hosts and giving it to the peeple).
implying that anyone is going to breed with me. other than that yeah I agree.
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alan jones2015-06-16 11:05
i say we install richard /g/entine on their asses
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alex jones2015-06-16 11:12
sorry forgot my name, it's alex jones, not alan jones. must be the dangerous chemicals theyre putting in my water that confused me rofl
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Anonymous2015-06-16 11:42
>>92 You should learn capitalization and punctuation before ever posting here again, Alex Jones.
They took Tumblr, 4chan and Reddit ... if we want a better net for our children we better start building it (preferably in such a way as to take away power from the admins/moderators/hosts
See, the thing is, if you've been banned from those websites before, I don't see how it's my problem. Those are other people's websites and you aren't entitled to do whatever you want on them. You, being on /prog/, should know better than to expect anything other than a lack of privacy and rampant censorship on sites like that.
And it's good that you want to make your own thing, that's what you should do. The problem being, there's such a blurry line between ``harmless'' speech that would be considered taboo on those other sites, and pretty much blatant evil that is also considered illegal in most civilized countries (child porn for example) that moderation is simply required.
I for one will be moderating my hosted copy of SchemeBBS, and I don't see any way around this. Because, as soon as word gets out that there exists a public, mostly anonymous, unmoderated forum, it becomes absolutely flooded with awful people--and you know exactly what I'm talking about--this does not mean you, Jews-are-evil-and-taking-over-the-world-kun.
Thoughts cannot be evil. Thoughts cannot be considered illegal. Read 1984 to learn more.
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Anonymous2015-06-16 19:48
>>96 Also, moderation is shit. The moderator is no better than the ones he moderates, no less evil, in fact often moreso, because his vileness is amplified by the power he possesses.
>>97 I like how you're implying that child pornography isn't evil.
>>98 Thinking about child porn is not illegal. Distributing it is. That's what I'm talking about. As soon as someone posts links to some other hidden service where you can get said items, the owner of the site is responsible. I'm not saying this is how things should be, it's just how it is. I'm sorry, but if you want to post CP maybe you should host this yourself.
Don't care, again, make your own. Do you think /prog/ is unmoderated?
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Anonymous2015-06-16 20:19
>>100 Not interested in that at all, but one day things you are interested in may be regarded the same and you would wish you had software that gave you plausibly deniability.
>>99 Propose an alternative then. Say someone posts child porn like >>100 describes, or something else--they negotiate a hit, or sell meth. What happens now? Does society not deserve justice? How do we achieve that justice? Do you think people should be able to say whatever they want without fear of consequence? Things just don't work like this in the real world. Speech (not ``thought'') does not exist in a vacuum. There is no possible idyllic free speech society without giving up the order of law. You'll figure this out after you've spent some time outside of college, I promise. I used to be like you.
>>82 Have you seen twister? http://twister.net.co/ I'd say you should just fork this if it wasn't for the boost C++ cancer that the bitcoin libraries bring
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Anonymous2015-06-16 21:38
>>103 God forbid homosexuals will be able confide in each other electronically in iran and chinese people will be able to read about falun gong. If this could happen the global fabric of society would disintegrate into nothing and we'd all perish in the ensuing chaos.
>>104 If you don't care about free speech then why are you talking?
>>105 It's written by a Brazilian, so I refuse to touch it.
>>106 You didn't propose an alternative! Or refute any of my extremely valid points. Comparing clearly immoral activity that is universally regarded to harm society to political censorship is exactly the argument a college sophomore would make--not only is it misguided, but it leads nowhere. I sincerely want to know what you think should happen if someone posts child porn on your sacred distributed free-speech net.
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Anonymous2015-06-16 22:04
>>107 You already have all the answers you could want by looking at freenet and one imperfect alternative is freenet. The answer is, not much, no one actually cares about CP. It makes the FBI look good if they can drag a pedo in cuffs in front of newspaper cameras, so they'll do it if the 1337 haxors they have on staff can pull it off, but NSA doesn't give a shit because pervs masturbating to pictures doesn't pose a threat to public safety. The other example, which is much more compelling, is terrorists communicating remotely. But what the fuck are you going to do about that? Ban encryption? It's not an option if you want to retain an economy. Even if you ban mediums like tor and freenet they'll just use other ways to communicate.
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Anonymous2015-06-16 22:05
>>107 Oh I forgot. Shut up! You don't care about free speech, so just pretend there's an entity that doesn't want you to talk so you can save me the trouble of listening to you.
Comparing clearly immoral activity that is universally regarded to harm society to political censorship is exactly the argument a college sophomore would make--not only is it misguided, but it leads nowhere.
Then tell me, how do you protect against political censorship while retaining the ability to ban immoral activity? You can't. A backdoor that allows control over immoral activity will be used for political censorship. You can't have both, so you have to decide which is more important.
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Anonymous2015-06-16 22:43
implying immoral activity harms society
- child porn is "immoral" - medicine requires child porn to study child anatomy - medicine is "immoral"
- human genome contains information to produce child porn - human genome is "immoral"
>>108,109 Who said I didn't care about free speech? I care about covering my own ass under the laws of the country I live in, which is an entirely different thing altogether. You're the one conflating moderation with muh first amendment. Who said I had an answer to the problem free speech presents, either? I don't. But claiming that there isn't a fundamental problem with complete, balls-to-the-wall, say whatever you want with no consequences ``speech'', is childish. You can gloss over CP, drugs, organized crime all you want, it doesn't help your case at all.
>>110 I never said it was possible, or that I wanted to ``protect against political censorship'' on a toy project programming BBS. Obviously, it is more important that I am not arrested, than you getting to have whatever fuzzy feeling you get when you know (?) you're not being moderated (?? lol).
medicine requires child porn human genome contains information to produce X
You're not going to troll me, buddy!
Still no one has proposed an alternative to the completely obvious problem that moderation solves. Please stop trying to convince me that there isn't a problem and come up with a way to fix it that doesn't put the ``power'' of DELETE POST FROM WEBSIGHT completely in the sinister, evil hands of little old me, the part-time hobbyist trying to keep illegal shit off of his box.
Is practical discussion so much to ask for? I'm not going to participate in any more of these debates straight out of junior college Intro to Philosophy. We are not going to launch a political movement out of an online bulletin board that uses s-expressions.
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echo 'Check my dubs' | sha1sum2015-06-16 23:55
While most people wish that child pornography and terrorism did not exist, humanity should not be deprived of their freedom to communicate just because of how a very small number of people might use that freedom.
Of course! Deleting illegal content completely strips everyone of their rights--how could I have been so stupid? This is a completely sane argument--Someone should send this FAQ to all the world leaders!