Name: Anonymous 2016-02-19 17:24
http://pastebin.com/KdVvh4am
https://blog.freenode.net/2016/02/recent-events-and-future-changes
Many of you have been asking questions about the recent rash of high-profile
staff resignations, and we feel we owe you all both an explanation and an
apology.
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 19 16:27:09 2016
Feb 19 16:27:09 * Now talking on #freenode
Feb 19 16:27:09 * Topic for #freenode is: Welcome to #freenode || https://blog.freenode.net/2016/02/recent-events-and-future-changes/ || You can find active staff with '/stats p' if you need network support
Feb 19 16:27:09 * Topic for #freenode set by spb!~stephen@freenode/staff/spb (Fri Feb 19 14:45:17 2016)
Feb 19 16:27:09 * Channel #freenode url: http://freenode.net/
Feb 19 16:27:11 * njan hands out tea
Feb 19 16:27:11 <elbereth> what happened?
Feb 19 16:27:11 * #freenode :Cannot send to channel
Feb 19 16:27:12 <mist> "crap"
Feb 19 16:27:13 <christel> i don't want to come across as a bit mean
Feb 19 16:27:18 <elbereth> i cant talk
Feb 19 16:27:18 * #freenode :Cannot send to channel
Feb 19 16:27:18 <ErrantEgo> njan: and im sure im part of that list...however, i'm not a part of staff, so I'm sure i fall into a different category
Feb 19 16:27:21 <mist> "want"
Feb 19 16:27:24 <christel> but you can't really wear a jester cloak and not expect people to laugh at you
Feb 19 16:27:25 <christel> :S
Feb 19 16:27:37 * ErrantEgo takes a bow
Feb 19 16:27:39 <njan> "mist"
Feb 19 16:28:00 <lagbox> "the"
Feb 19 16:28:02 * [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
Feb 19 16:28:05 <fexilal> "quotes" ?
Feb 19 16:28:09 * cog (~cog@41.143.75.30) has joined
Feb 19 16:28:15 <Downtime> " "
Feb 19 16:28:15 * Xanather has quit (Quit: Leaving)
Feb 19 16:28:15 <gamma> "freenode"
Feb 19 16:28:18 <lagbox> loud noises
Feb 19 16:28:32 * cog has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
Feb 19 16:28:34 >njan< hi i cant speak
Feb 19 16:28:36 * CC66 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
Feb 19 16:28:37 * tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined
Feb 19 16:28:43 * eir gives voice to tripleslash
Feb 19 16:28:50 * eir gives voice to DrJ Floopseng Hausehn cojy
Feb 19 16:28:50 * eir gives voice to demize fahadash elbereth
Feb 19 16:28:52 <elbereth> hi
Feb 19 16:28:54 <elbereth> who has resigned?
Feb 19 16:28:59 * Dbjw (~Dbjw@41.143.75.30) has joined
Feb 19 16:29:02 <mst> me. years ago.
Feb 19 16:29:04 <gamma> everyone
Feb 19 16:29:09 * Klyde (~anonymous@37-147-81-212.broadband.corbina.ru) has joined
Feb 19 16:29:11 * mleknl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
Feb 19 16:29:12 <elbereth> oh okay.................
Feb 19 16:29:14 <tinystoat> literally everyone.
Feb 19 16:29:19 <elbereth> so are you not telling me
Feb 19 16:29:25 <mst> christel: right. a lot mean or not at all.
Feb 19 16:29:28 <elbereth> how about a straight answer?
Feb 19 16:29:33 * Dbjw has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
Feb 19 16:29:39 <tinystoat> elbereth: you got it. literally everybone
Feb 19 16:29:43 <tinystoat> er one
Feb 19 16:29:46 <elbereth> why?
Feb 19 16:29:52 <tinystoat> i don't know that
Feb 19 16:29:52 <mst> I'm sorry, in the name of diversity of sexual orientation we no longer do straight.
Feb 19 16:29:56 <njan> elbereth: orange.
Feb 19 16:30:05 <elbereth> wow
Feb 19 16:30:09 <elbereth> you guys are being jerks
Feb 19 16:30:14 <njan> (why is it a meaningful question?)
Feb 19 16:30:17 <elbereth> i just wanted to learn about what was going on
Feb 19 16:30:17 * pingpong1127 (~pingpong1@mvccgw2.mvcc.edu) has joined
Feb 19 16:30:22 <njan> (I mean, beyond idle curiosity, why is it actually important to know?)
Feb 19 16:30:29 <mist> elbereth: a few of us resigned, and then came back under a different structure
Feb 19 16:30:31 <elbereth> I assumed you'd be less rude based on the blog post
Feb 19 16:30:33 <njan> (Like, why does it have more diagnosticity than any other piece of information or the stuff we've already given out?)
Feb 19 16:30:38 <elbereth> I guess i was wrong
Feb 19 16:30:39 * Klyde has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
Feb 19 16:30:50 * eir gives voice to pingpong1127
Feb 19 16:30:53 <christel> elbereth: a fair few staff resigned (me, mist, Downtime, thomas, niko)
Feb 19 16:30:57 * ddavidd has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
Feb 19 16:31:03 <fexilal> elbereth : rudeness is in the eye of the beholder
Feb 19 16:31:12 * ddavidd (~ddavidd@unaffiliated/ddavidd) has joined
Feb 19 16:31:18 * eir gives voice to ddavidd
Feb 19 16:31:19 <mist> but yes, that was fairly rude
Feb 19 16:31:23 <elbereth> you guys are acting like children
Feb 19 16:31:25 <mst> elbereth: nosiness without a purpose is also often considered rude
Feb 19 16:31:32 <elbereth> can I please just get the information i want?
Feb 19 16:31:35 * CC66 (~CC66@unaffiliated/cc66) has joined
Feb 19 16:31:37 <fexilal> christel : will we ever know what exactly prompted the resignations?
Feb 19 16:31:39 <mst> you already got given it
Feb 19 16:31:41 * eir gives voice to CC66
Feb 19 16:31:44 * richard__ has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
Feb 19 16:31:46 <mist> elbereth: christel provided it above
Feb 19 16:31:52 * richard__ (~richard@x5ce13e02.dyn.telefonica.de) has joined
Feb 19 16:31:54 <elbereth> I wasn't here when she said it
Feb 19 16:31:54 <ddavidd> Whenever I log into into freenode, nickserv says, "(notice) You are already logged in as ddavidd." Am I doing something wrong here?
Feb 19 16:31:57 <tinystoat> elbereth: you've joined a channel that is no longer the channel you expect it to be nor peopled with the same people. please realise that freenode has completely changed overnight and what you expect is no longer forthcoming.
Feb 19 16:31:57 * eir gives voice to richard__
Feb 19 16:31:58 <elbereth> can someone please repeat it
Feb 19 16:32:05 <mst> hit page up, you were in here.
Feb 19 16:32:06 <cojy> you guys said a lot of people quit, obviously someone who hasn't been able to keep up would want to quantify it
Feb 19 16:32:07 * lucyinthesky (~lucyinthe@unaffiliated/lucyinthesky) has joined
Feb 19 16:32:16 <mist> yes, you were, though you may have missed it 16:30:54 <+* christel> elbereth: a fair few staff resigned (me, mist, Downtime, thomas, niko)
Feb 19 16:32:18 <elbereth> mst you are being extremely rude
Feb 19 16:32:22 mist misalias MissionCritical MistaMike MisterRobot mistone
Feb 19 16:32:25 <elbereth> mist, why did people resign?
Feb 19 16:32:32 <mst> I am attempting to help you to find the information you were already given
Feb 19 16:32:36 <mniip> elbereth, you are being extremely lazy and demanding to be spoonfed :)
Feb 19 16:32:38 <tinystoat> elbereth: it's rude to point out the truth? wtf?
Feb 19 16:32:40 <mst> I'm sorry if you find the expectation you know what page up is to be rude
Feb 19 16:32:43 <elbereth> this is insane
Feb 19 16:32:45 <gamma> mniip can code
Feb 19 16:32:47 * fnjufo (~john@dslb-188-100-194-170.188.100.pools.vodafone-ip.de) has joined
Feb 19 16:32:48 <gamma> :o
Feb 19 16:32:53 <mist> Because we were unhappy with the current state of freenode and the way that things were going within the staff group
Feb 19 16:32:56 <fexilal> elbereth : insanity is in the eye of the beholder
Feb 19 16:32:58 * Unknown23888 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
Feb 19 16:32:58 <lagbox> elbereth, agreed
Feb 19 16:33:01 <mst> I can treat you like an idiot if you prefer, but I'd normally consider that rude
Feb 19 16:33:01 <tinystoat> elbereth: it's insane to tell somebody speaking the truth that they are insane. duh?
Feb 19 16:33:02 <elbereth> what are you guys getting out of being so immature?
Feb 19 16:33:11 * [\\\] (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined
Feb 19 16:33:13 <mquin> mst: turn it down a little, please
Feb 19 16:33:14 <lagbox> elbereth, lolz i guess
Feb 19 16:33:19 <elbereth> thanks mquin
Feb 19 16:33:20 * Unknown23888 (~dr_watson@dslb-084-059-145-096.084.059.pools.vodafone-ip.de) has joined
Feb 19 16:33:20 <fexilal> elbereth : dopamine
Feb 19 16:33:22 <lagbox> when you figure that out you can fix the internet
Feb 19 16:33:24 <tinystoat> oh i get it! more antagonism coming from elbereth thi stime
Feb 19 16:33:25 christel chachasmooth chalcedny chalcedony ChanServ chaoscon Charlie79 ChasedSpade ChauffeR CheckDavid chenuki Chex Chicago Chill_Surf chimera Choppa38 Chris_G ChrisAM1 Chroma Chunky
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Feb 19 16:33:32 * DrJ_n is now known as DrJ
Feb 19 16:33:34 * tinystoat sighs
Feb 19 16:33:36 <elbereth> it is not me who is being antagonistic
Feb 19 16:33:43 <lagbox> agreed again
Feb 19 16:33:47 <tinystoat> elbereth: i answered you maturely so wtf?
Feb 19 16:33:50 * tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
Feb 19 16:33:53 <tinystoat> you ignore me completely?
Feb 19 16:33:54 <njan> Come on, folks.
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Feb 19 16:34:05 * Guest43745 (~FIQ@prgmr/customer/fiq) has joined
Feb 19 16:34:06 <fexilal> elbereth : why are you being racist?
Feb 19 16:34:09 <mst> mquin: I'll just leave it be until the toys are back in the pram :)
Feb 19 16:34:12 * ChanServ removes voice from fexilal
Feb 19 16:34:18 * tinystoat gets back to inkscape
Feb 19 16:34:22 <lagbox> yay its efnet again
Feb 19 16:34:27 * wgreenhouse has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
Feb 19 16:35:32 <teward> any staffer alive?
Feb 19 16:35:34 <mniip> hi
Feb 19 16:35:59 * tifa (~tifa@lpc-232-150.lpc-wireless.depaul.edu) has joined
Feb 19 16:36:04 <mquin> teward: what's up?
Feb 19 16:36:17 * eir gives voice to DrJ Guest43745 Guest78757 Unknown23888
Feb 19 16:36:17 * eir gives voice to [\\\] fnjufo tifa
Feb 19 16:36:18 <mniip> oh right, should've mentioned that
Feb 19 16:36:31 <teward> mquin: can you peek into whether this user is actually getting klined or not? They were having constant connection and maxsendq failures in a channel and showed as klined a couple times, only to reconnect shortly after. PM inbound with the details
Feb 19 16:39:44 <mwallacesd> Hi eir, what I have to do to in order to change and set parameters at #gulmore? I cannot take channel control (our site is: www.gulmore.com; my e-mail is mwallacesd@gulmore.org) me I take founder again??? Is it possible???
Feb 19 16:40:56 <Downtime> mwallacesd: Hello there, fire a PM my way :)
Feb 19 16:40:59 <nb> www.gulmore.com does not appear to be working
Feb 19 16:41:06 * jose (jose@ubuntu/member/jose) has joined
Feb 19 16:41:08 <mniip> also eir is a bot
Feb 19 16:41:19 <mwallacesd> Sorry, my mistake is ORG
Feb 19 16:41:20 * baprath (~baprath@115.247.85.16) has joined
Feb 19 16:41:22 <mwallacesd> www.gulmore.org
Feb 19 16:41:44 <teward> mniip: mquin: also, +v for everyone is new... o.O
Feb 19 16:41:54 * baprath has quit (Client Quit)
Feb 19 16:41:55 <mquin> teward: see /topic
Feb 19 16:41:56 <mniip> it is
Feb 19 16:42:00 <teward> ah
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Feb 19 16:42:12 * Riottoso (~Riottoso@host129-123-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined
Feb 19 16:42:14 <teward> mquin: i read that, i didn't see anything in that link RE: #freenode and channel mode changes for users
Feb 19 16:42:16 <teward> i'll reread though
Feb 19 16:44:28 <spb> mwallacesd: that looks like the sort of channel we'd like to have here; mind if i PM you?
Feb 19 16:45:45 <FIQ> why am I logged out?
Feb 19 16:46:21 <Sove> idk but that url gave me a
Feb 19 16:46:27 <Sove> "malicious site blocked"
Feb 19 16:46:31 * vnd (~user@user-31-175-56-101.play-internet.pl) has left
Feb 19 16:47:01 <mquin> which link?
Feb 19 16:47:07 * shakal (93fb1695@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.251.22.149) has joined
Feb 19 16:47:07 <Sove> The gumore thing
Feb 19 16:47:13 * sssilver has quit (Client Quit)
Feb 19 16:47:13 * progger (435c3296@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.92.50.150) has joined
Feb 19 16:47:18 <tinystoat> Sove: interesting i didn't get that
Feb 19 16:47:22 <tinystoat> but it took ages to load
Feb 19 16:47:32 * Guest30174 is now known as FIQ
Feb 19 16:47:45 <tinystoat> and damn linux people can't you design better front ends?
Feb 19 16:51:33 <technonerd> i would like an unaffiliated cloak
Feb 19 16:51:38 <shakal> Hello, could I ask for a shield? Thanks
Feb 19 16:51:43 <shakal> (like technonerd)
Feb 19 16:52:11 * technonerd has quit (Changing host)
Feb 19 16:52:11 * technonerd (~techno@unaffiliated/technonerd) has joined
Feb 19 16:52:11 * sendak.freenode.net gives voice to technonerd
Feb 19 16:52:32 <phy1729> shakal: a cloak won't show while you use webchat
Feb 19 16:52:46 <phy1729> technonerd: cloaked
Feb 19 16:52:53 <shakal> I use also a normal client
Feb 19 16:52:55 <elbereth> I think freenode should mask users ip addresses using a hash like some other networks (such as rizon do). This protects non-expert users from being attacked by hackers - I have seen someone being DOS'd because someone didn't like tthem and was able to read their ip off the hostmask (and staff did not respond or help)
Feb 19 16:52:58 <shakal> I'm not at my computer now
Feb 19 16:53:05 <technonerd> thanks phy1729
Feb 19 16:53:07 * DrJ has quit (Disconnected by services)
Feb 19 16:53:07 <shakal> so when I get at my computer, will I have the cloak?
Feb 19 16:53:47 <phy1729> shakal: you will now (cloaked)
Feb 19 16:53:47 <shakal> thank you!
Feb 19 16:53:51 * doudou (52f09afb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.240.154.251) has joined
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Feb 19 16:54:13 <kaniini> elbereth: there are trivial ways to get around that
Feb 19 16:54:19 * AndChat|302049 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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Feb 19 16:54:28 <mquin> elbereth: those hashes can be suprisingly easy to defeat, so in the situation where someone might be motivated enough to launch an ttack they don't offer much in the way of protection
Feb 19 16:54:28 <kaniini> elbereth: such as linking the user to a website and monitoring access.log
Feb 19 16:54:39 * Kont (~Kont@li1238-166.members.linode.com) has joined
Feb 19 16:54:42 <nyuszika7h> or a method using services which I'm... not going to detail
Feb 19 16:54:51 <nyuszika7h> (and it's not a bug, can't really be prevented easily)
Feb 19 16:54:58 <thumbs> elbereth: it would add a false sense of security
Feb 19 16:54:59 <kaniini> i'll detail it, just set a bunch of bans and then narrow it down
Feb 19 16:55:04 <kaniini> such 0day, wow
Feb 19 16:55:15 <mst> elbereth: that would be security theatre only, and unlike .gov we don't have the TSA budget to waste on stuff that doesn't help :)
Feb 19 16:55:20 <nyuszika7h> well, at least nobody is going to blame _me_ :P
Feb 19 16:55:57 <mniip> bunch?
Feb 19 16:55:59 * mniip hides
Feb 19 16:56:08 <elbereth> I've done an audit of the cryptography in rizons implementation and it is high quality
Feb 19 16:56:13 <elbereth> I can assure you, it is not easy to reverse
Feb 19 16:56:19 * Amalynn has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
Feb 19 16:56:24 <thumbs> elbereth: it's trivial to bypass.
Feb 19 16:56:28 <elbereth> you are wrong thumbs
Feb 19 16:56:32 <elbereth> also a little bit of extra security can go a long way, not everyone (especially not the kind of idiot who DDOS'd this poor guy simply for not liking him) is an expert on all these advanced techniques of finding out someones ip
Feb 19 16:56:55 * paulofilip3 (~paulofili@pD9E9B58D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined
Feb 19 16:56:55 <thumbs> elbereth: I assure you, it's trivial to bypass, on any network.
Feb 19 16:57:00 * eir gives voice to paulofilip3
Feb 19 16:57:02 <IndigoTiger> you apparently missed the part about linking to a website you own or (ab)using services
Feb 19 16:57:16 <Pici> using hashes also makes it non-trivial to ban an ip range
Feb 19 16:57:24 <thumbs> elbereth: also, you don't run much into this type of personal DDoS attack on this network, either.
Feb 19 16:57:24 <elbereth> pici, that is true
Feb 19 16:57:29 <elbereth> everything else said is wrong
Feb 19 16:57:43 <Sove> Most ppl still use ipv4
Feb 19 16:57:51 <Sove> Which has 4.2 billion IPs
Feb 19 16:57:59 <thumbs> elbereth: so it's mostly a non-issue on this network, thankfully.
Feb 19 16:58:08 <phy1729> Sove: less 224/3 10/8 127/8 etc
Feb 19 16:58:09 <thumbs> elbereth: I can't speak for the users on other networks, of course.
Feb 19 16:58:11 <Sove> Guess how long it will take to brute-force all those 4.2 IPa addresses
Feb 19 16:58:14 <Sove> Yes ofc
Feb 19 16:58:17 <elbereth> thumbs would you like PM about this
Feb 19 16:58:17 * Don (~Thunderbi@cpe-65-28-178-116.wi.res.rr.com) has joined
Feb 19 16:58:30 * Amalynn (~kvirc@unaffiliated/amalynn) has joined
Feb 19 16:58:35 <kaniini> Sove: you can get the IP in 32 rotations using services
Feb 19 16:58:37 <thumbs> elbereth: I don't see why a PM is needed - it's a healthy discussion suited for #freenode
Feb 19 16:58:42 <kaniini> Sove: by design
Feb 19 16:58:53 <phy1729> kaniini: can do it in 1
Feb 19 16:59:19 <kaniini> phy1729: sure if MAXBANS is very high :)
Feb 19 17:00:05 <doudou> second is about ethics, suppose you control insurance company, one ethics is do not use spying but in one hand you can easily buy to some company with no danger, second ethic is work for your clients, and your clients do not need risky client, what ethic could you choose? Can you sleep withour problem?
Feb 19 17:00:10 * kunaaljain_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
Feb 19 17:00:16 <mniip> 1455900898 [19:54:58] <+elbereth> I can assure you, it is not easy to reverse
Feb 19 17:00:25 <mniip> you're talking to a charybdis dev here :(
Feb 19 17:00:27 <mniip> :) *
Feb 19 17:00:32 * Chill_Surf has quit (Quit: Leaving)
Feb 19 17:00:40 <thumbs> mniip: elbereth is a chary dev?
Feb 19 17:00:41 * tallguy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
Feb 19 17:00:42 <doge> mniip: i see being a dev makes you unhappy :P
Feb 19 17:00:48 <elbereth> that's cool mniip! good for you
Feb 19 17:00:57 <kaniini> mniip: not anymore
Feb 19 17:01:31 <cojy> even for not security from ddos masking ip/host is important for general privacy
Feb 19 17:01:39 <Pajeet> a
Feb 19 17:01:50 <Pajeet> moshi moshi freenode desu
Feb 19 17:01:56 * shroad (~shroad@webrex.ru) has joined
Feb 19 17:01:59 * shroad (~shroad@webrex.ru) has left
Feb 19 17:02:01 <kaniini> cojy: sometimes removal of privacy helps to encourage user integrity
Feb 19 17:02:04 * payload (~payload@unaffiliated/payload) has joined
Feb 19 17:02:10 <doudou> hide client ip, if some channels op want to have some info about users ip if is simple, give them a function that can answer if too handle have same ip, so they would be able to control what they need; ùmore you will be able to control spying usage like using function with no reason
Feb 19 17:02:20 <kaniini> also, the ircd already has ip obfuscation functionality. it is intentionally disabled here :)
Feb 19 17:02:26 * Guest15971 has quit (Client Quit)
Feb 19 17:02:29 <moli> mniip: what's not so easy to reverse? sorry just joined, what's the discussion about?
Feb 19 17:02:39 <cojy> kaniini: that's just speculation which even google disagrees with you about after trying it
Feb 19 17:02:45 * Brownout (~brownout@unaffiliated/brownout) has left
Feb 19 17:02:47 <DrAwesome> moli IP protection on IRC networks
Feb 19 17:02:55 * payload has quit (Client Quit)
Feb 19 17:03:04 <cojy> it's more likely to lower quality by making some people not want to participate
Feb 19 17:03:19 <Pajeet> good evening humans
Feb 19 17:03:27 * Pajeet (~dumbass@unaffiliated/m712) has left (":\r\nKILL Upstand\r\n")
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Feb 19 17:03:33 * eir gives voice to Pajeet
Feb 19 17:03:34 * murk (~murk@unaffiliated/murk) has joined
Feb 19 17:03:39 <thumbs> cojy: folks that are concerned with their privacy can use a VPN/VPS easily
Feb 19 17:03:40 * kunaaljain_ (~kunaaljai@188.166.181.170) has joined
Feb 19 17:03:42 <doudou> some people dont beleive that some company could collect all what is said from one ip, able to link that to person, and able to sell this information
Feb 19 17:03:59 <thumbs> doudou: fun fact: every time you visit a web site, they have your IP.
Feb 19 17:04:02 * luckman212 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
Feb 19 17:04:06 <Pajeet> Our legendary savior, Uptime, has returned! \o/
Feb 19 17:04:18 <Downtime> :)
Feb 19 17:04:20 <doudou> they dont beleive that such company exists, and have already a name like goble
Feb 19 17:04:36 <Pajeet> (Now he'll definitely buy a ThinkPad, good goy)
Feb 19 17:04:37 * Hausehn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
Feb 19 17:04:46 <thumbs> the long-term fix, IMO, is to use tor-sasl access when that is restored
Feb 19 17:05:25 <doudou> thumbs i know, my children have sex advertising on they tablets when i go to porn sites
Feb 19 17:05:26 * eir gives voice to luckman212
Feb 19 17:05:33 <elbereth> IMO everyone who comes here deserves a reasonable expectation of privacy, not just security experts
Feb 19 17:05:38 <Pajeet> Staff: Please make the return of tor-sasl a top priority.
Feb 19 17:05:41 * tallguy (~tallguy_s@rrcs-67-53-55-67.west.biz.rr.com) has joined
Feb 19 17:05:42 * rsx (~dummy@host-188-174-198-92.customer.m-online.net) has left
Feb 19 17:05:43 <thumbs> elbereth: well, I would use an ad blocker for that
Feb 19 17:05:46 <thumbs> err.
Feb 19 17:05:48 * eir gives voice to tallguy
Feb 19 17:05:50 <thumbs> doudou: that was for you
Feb 19 17:05:50 <doudou> they said, we dont spy, it is a program automatic!
Feb 19 17:06:14 * fnjufo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
Feb 19 17:06:20 <thumbs> doudou: install an ad blocker to protect them.
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 19 16:38:11 2016
Feb 19 16:38:11 <christel> hi hi :)
Feb 19 16:38:14 <elbereth> hey
Feb 19 16:38:15 * [christel] is away (brb)
Feb 19 16:38:17 <elbereth> please could you tell me about why many staff members resigned?
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 19 16:37:05 2016
Feb 19 16:37:05 <spb> hi
Feb 19 16:37:22 <elbereth> please could you tell me about why many staff members resigned?
Feb 19 16:37:37 <elbereth> I tried asking in #freenode but i didn't get any response
Feb 19 16:38:06 <spb> as was mentioned in the blog post recently, there have been quite a lots of problems in the way we've been operating for the last few years
Feb 19 16:38:20 <spb> and eventually people got fed up of everything being rubbish and left
Feb 19 16:38:25 <elbereth> I read the blog but i didn't really understand
Feb 19 16:38:30 <spb> so then we decided to try to fix it
Feb 19 16:38:56 <elbereth> I guess I'd like to know what sort of issues were people upset about? and why did it become a huge deal? and is there a list of the people that left?
Feb 19 16:39:55 <spb> the list of people who left isn't really important, as they've all since re-joined
Feb 19 16:40:03 <spb> after we committed to improving things
Feb 19 16:40:18 <elbereth> oh I see
Feb 19 16:40:29 <elbereth> that's really useful information!
Feb 19 16:42:51 <elbereth> is there achannel for mature discussion about this?
Feb 19 16:42:54 <elbereth> #freenode is really bad
Feb 19 16:43:38 <spb> #freenode is the channel for discussing anything about the network
Feb 19 16:43:49 <spb> i realise it's a bit chaotic now but we're hoping we can calm it down a little
Feb 19 16:44:53 <elbereth> its really really bad
Feb 19 16:45:08 <elbereth> there are people there JUST to cause trouble and stir things up
Feb 19 16:45:24 <spb> and there will be those people in any channel we set up right now
Feb 19 16:45:37 <elbereth> how come? do you know where they are coming from?
Feb 19 16:45:42 <elbereth> it seems a little strange..
Feb 19 16:45:59 <spb> it doesn't matter where they come from; it's the internet and some people will always act like dicks on it
Feb 19 16:46:14 <elbereth> okay but what about muting them for 1min if they're being disruptive like that?
Feb 19 16:46:24 <spb> we'd rather try to get our main channel back on track than run away to create a new one
Feb 19 16:46:30 <elbereth> that's a good idea!
Feb 19 16:49:17 <elbereth> so what's the plan?
Feb 19 16:49:28 <elbereth> I mean what sort of stuff do you want to change/improve?
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 19 16:37:56 2016
Feb 19 16:37:56 <mist> hi
Feb 19 16:38:03 <elbereth> hello
Feb 19 16:38:10 <elbereth> please could you tell me about why many staff members resigned?
Feb 19 16:41:06 <mist> There's not an awful lot to tell really. Best description is a general feel of disenchantment with freenode having become "just another irc network". and we'd had enough. Following a number of resignations, some of us got together and discussed some ideas around how we might eb able to "reboot" freenode and try to recapture some of the original ideas
Feb 19 16:41:41 <elbereth> ah i see! thanks
Feb 19 16:41:57 <elbereth> who was it that resigned? are you short on staff now?
Feb 19 16:43:02 <mist> That was addressed in the other channel. As for whether we are short, that's not particuarly clear right now. We have lost a few people in the restructuring but it may be that we can refocus on important things a bit more
Feb 19 16:43:12 <elbereth> which channel? may I join it?
Feb 19 16:43:39 <mist> on #freenode, I mean. the names were given there
Feb 19 16:43:53 <elbereth> oh! do you think you could copy/paste it to me please?
Feb 19 16:44:04 <elbereth> if its not too much trouble
Feb 19 16:46:36 <elbereth> sorry if I'm bugging you
Feb 19 16:46:46 <elbereth> I'm just trying to understand what's going on
Feb 19 16:47:25 <mist> 16:32:17 <+mist> yes, you were, though you may have missed it 16:30:54 <+* christel> elbereth: a fair few staff resigned (me, mist, Downtime, thomas, niko)
Feb 19 16:47:34 <elbereth> oh okay! only 5
Feb 19 16:47:42 <elbereth> and some of the rejoined
Feb 19 16:47:52 <elbereth> I wasnt able to see that message within all the chaos
Feb 19 16:47:56 <mist> Additionally we lost jayne and werdan7
Feb 19 16:48:03 <elbereth> jayne wasn't very good anyway
Feb 19 16:48:47 <elbereth> Im curious what the important things you all intend to focus on now are?
Feb 19 16:48:59 <elbereth> in what direction do you want to guide freenode towards?
Feb 19 16:49:46 <mist> The core focus should be on helping out the groups and communities that want to use freenode for their projects, rather than on firefighting idiotic spammers
Feb 19 16:50:27 <elbereth> I see
Feb 19 16:50:54 <elbereth> what if there's something I feel really strongly about and want to suggest?
Feb 19 16:51:26 <mist> You should probably suggest it and we can then take it away and think about it, or not, as the case may be
Feb 19 16:52:44 <elbereth> ok: I think freenode should mask users ip addresses using a hash like some other networks (such as rizon do). This protects non-expert users from being attacked by hackers - I have seen someone being DOS'd because someone didn't like tthem and was able to read their ip off the hostmask (and staff did not respond or help)
Feb 19 16:53:03 <elbereth> i posted it in main too
Feb 19 16:53:29 <mist> i expect someone will respond to that there
Feb 19 16:54:15 <mist> but in case they don't, then essentially the issue with that is that most of the existing hashing designs are flawed in one way or another. Such as, easily reversable, or else completely meangingless and thus not useful to chanops.
Feb 19 16:54:46 <elbereth> I've done an audit of the cryptography in rizons implementation and it is high quality
Feb 19 16:54:48 <mist> Since there's no curerntly useful design, there's nothing to move us away from our current use of unaffiliated cloaks, which essentially suffers from problem 1) but doesn't require us to change anything
Feb 19 16:55:42 <elbereth> also a little bit of extra security can go a long way, not everyone (especially not the kind of idiot who DDOS'd this poor guy simply for not liking him) is an expert on all these advanced techniques of finding out someones ip
Feb 19 16:56:46 <mist> Yes, not everyone is an expert, so it is entirely unideal to give people a false impression of security by allocating default vhosts that don't actually do anything
Feb 19 16:56:59 <elbereth> it's not a false sense of security
Feb 19 16:58:24 <mist> the question seems to be being addressed on channel, so i suggest following it through on there where others can contribute.