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Is Lisp a lie?

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-07 18:45

I was reading this article, when I had a revelation.

http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rewritingreddit
One assumed it must have been divine intervention, since “there seems to be no other reason for switching to an inferior language.” Another figured something else must be going on: “Could this be…a lie? To throw off competition? It’s not as though Paul Graham hasn’t hinted at this tactic in his essays…” Another chimed in: “I decided it was a prank.” Another suggested the authors simply wanted more “cut corners, hacks, and faked artisanship.”

Pay close attention to this part:
“Could this be…a lie? To throw off competition? It’s not as though Paul Graham hasn’t hinted at this tactic in his essays…”

What if all this stuff about Lisp being more productive is, itself, the big lie?

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-07 19:35

That's because Lisp macros are shit that doesn't compose. If everyone used Oleg-style macros, Lisp would make them truly hyper-productive.

http://okmij.org/ftp/Scheme/macros.html#Macro-CPS-programming

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-07 19:57

In the context though, he is listing comments from Lispers asking why he changed to FIOC. They are asking if Python is what is being used to throw off competition.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-07 21:55

>>2
No.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-08 0:40

Lisp is truth. Lisp is beauty. Lisp is looking down at your boner and seeing it's longer than usual.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-08 10:33

>>4
Yes.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-08 15:04

>>4
>>6
You're both wrong: it's maybe!

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-08 15:28

>>7
But Lisp has no Maybe type.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-08 15:38

>>1
The first error is to believe that Lisp is ``language''. It's not. A pure LISP have no syntax, and since there is no language without a syntax then LISP can not be a ``language'', as incorrectly described by many. Instead, LISP is a formal description on how to process data/code. Unfortunately, very few people is aware of this fact (principally due to malformations of the S-Exp notation done by the authors of the so-called ``Common Lisp''). There is nothing, and there will never be anything, more closer to perfection than LISP to create computer programs, in other words, if there is a Builder for this universe it must had been used something very similar to LISP to create it.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-08 15:57

>>9
He did a very poor job with this whole Earth thing.
Mutations and diseases, vestigial organs, runaway evolution.
Seems like it lacks "the intelligence" in its design.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-08 16:13

>>9
Does this LISP have at least one implementation, then?

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-08 16:16

>>9
Now that's swindling with Platonism!

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-08 16:20

>>11
It has no implementation and no description. It doesn't exist outside of >>9's mind.

Can you notice the immediate contradiction? A ``formal description'' with no description, formal or otherwise.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-08 18:56

>>13
But it would be cool if such a thing >>9 existed. A language beyond all languages, something that makes everything else useless and unnecessary, the ultimate Holy Grail of /prog/-ramming.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-09 5:23

>>14
The ultimate language wouldn't be LISP.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-09 11:01

>>15
Don't tell me you have crap like FORTH or ASM on your mind.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-09 14:22

>>3
Yes, what >>1 did was to take that idea and use it in a different, hitherto unused way. It's called "creativity". I don't expect a lisper to understand.

>>1 I think that Paul Graham used Lisp propaganda to have self-selection among impressionable young males that he could brainwash into anal sex, both metaphorically, as in, unreasonable VC terms, and literally of course. Kind of like nigerian scammers purposefully make their scams ridiculous enough to avoid wasting time on insufficiently gullible marks.

With reddit, however, as you can see PG himself was taken for a ride (both metaphorically and sexually).

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-09 14:35

>>17
Kind of like nigerian scammers purposefully make their scams ridiculous enough to avoid wasting time on insufficiently gullible marks.
That's an interesting thought, are Nigerians really clever enough to use a filter? Are Nigerian scammers even Nigerian?

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-09 15:25

>>17
It's called "creativity". I don't expect a lisper to understand.
Fuck you dude. That's not called creativity, it's called lying.

With reddit, however, as you can see PG himself was taken for a ride (both metaphorically and sexually).
I wonder what sorts of things go out at Y Combinator. If it's a bunch of the HackerJews crowd begging for money, then I'm surprised he hasn't Swartz'd himself.

>>18
Maybe Kenyan, they're pretty crafty.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-09 15:43

>>14
Every language's AST is equivalent to a Lisp s-expression. The problem & difference is that they don't use s-expressions to define the handling of the AST itself. So Lisp is in almost every programming language, but underutilized.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-09 16:21

>>20
You're overrating Lisp. Most languages' ASTs are annotated with lots of additional info like types of nodes (declaration, assignment, global variable name etc) and can't be written out as simple s-exps.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-09 17:35

>>21
Read about KISS principle. Simple things are easier to work with.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-09 17:38

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/microsoft/9346371/Nigerian-scam-emails-deliberately-implausible.html

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-09 18:15

>>22
That doesn't change the fact that real-language AST nodes are usually annotated with additional info. It's called "decorations".

For example, the javacc compiler:

JJTree provides decorations for two basic varieties of nodes, and some syntactic shorthand to make their use convenient.

https://javacc.java.net/doc/JJTree.html

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-09 18:59

>>24
Sorry but what are you talking about? any AST can be described with s-expressions, how the nodes are defined is irrelevant.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-09 19:29

>>25
But it won't look like Lisp, it'll all be cluttered with annotations (foo #:funcall #:nodes:3 x #:varname 5 #:literal:int poo #:global-name)

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-10 1:17

>>24
Several Lisp dialects provide metadata attached to AST. Symta, Racket and Clojure are among them.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-10 10:38

>>1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYIQHhlrXYo

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-10 19:35

>>21,24
Declarations and other forms of decorators are s-expressions, too, you fucking idiot.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-11 20:16

Anyone who tries to sell you on Lisp is a cons artist.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-11 20:53

Lisp: the hyper-productive language of top programmers that could become the next big thing since the 60's.
Only with the vast dedicated conspiracy to suppress Lisp its spread was stopped, and Imperative Patriarchy won the language war. Many lispers were forcibly converted using a combination of brainwashing and cheap thrills of 'performance'.
#LispEqualityNow #LISPstillMatters #LambdaForever

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-11 21:25

>>30
oyyy lmao

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-11 21:30

>>32

go back to /polecat-kebabs/ """please"""

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-11 22:58

>>33
oyyyy vey nice dubs

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-11 23:30

>>33
"/polecat kebabs/" is already an acronym for "back to /b/ please".

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-12 0:19

I still can't tell if this is real:

http://www.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/sigplannotices/gigo-1997-04.html

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-12 6:33

>>35
*anagram

/polecat kebags/

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-12 12:46

>>35
By the BTW way, back to polecat /g/ kebabs from this ITT thread, to be TBH honest, please.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-12 13:04

>>29
But it looks like shit and Lisp doesn't.

>>27
Clojure is not a Lisp, Symta - what's that? Racket is shit.

Name: Anonymous 2016-05-12 17:11

>>39
Given that Common Lisp includes s-expression declarations in the standard, I can only conclude that your fucking brain fell out when you were born.
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