let's create the future: a minimal lisp based web

A simple new web (HTTP, HTML, JS) replacement based on s-expressions and lisp. It would be useful for things like file hosting, wikipedia/wikis, BBSs, online newpapers/blogs, imageboards, youtube/mediagoblin style video sites.

Instead of XML we use s-exp for markup. It will be a very simple functional markup language that could be defined in a page or two. We will not allow it to grow and grow horribly like the W3C to the point that it's impossible to implement from scratch.

Instead of javascript we use a simple lisp language (similar to R5RS without continuations) which is interpreted with strict resource and permission bounds, so it will never do anything you do not allow it including swamping your computer down like current js JIT systems.

For servers, instead of tools similar to PHP we will use systems inspired by type-checking that are able to statically ensure that no vulnerabilities in the class of XSS/SQL injection/... exist.

1. A first draft design needs to be created.

2. It should be easy to get something up and running quite fast by writing a proxy that translates all this s-exp stuff into HTML - just for the purpose of prototyping.

3. Reference implementations from scratch - focus on low memory usage and stability (using safe languages instead of C or C++).

The example in >>29-34 is completely nonsensical. You are taking a problem in current HTML that wouldn't exist in a sexpr language, and because browsers couldn't handle this now non-existent error class (how are they supposed to? it's non-existent after all), it's bad or unsuited for the Real World™ because the brogramming crowd frequently makes this mistake?

Beyond ridiculous.

>>31
holy shit XML is more expressive than sexp

>>39

It isn't programming

HTML
not programming

2011
He thinks HRTML is not not progremming

HAHAHAHAHAHHEHUAHEUAHYEBHEYHGJkrhJELOQ:TejwgRHNIUHEQHIGNRHILEZIDFGHGJKGKHAHJ.HRWJ,BSOAV,POP,KOVAPOBOMIBEAIUABEOIUABERONIUAERBOINUAEBRNOIUVAUINOBAMIPAERBIOBMAERBIAMEROIUNSGORPISJDP

>>42
U MENA HTML

>>43
/hockback canto/

>>38
/RIAA/ challenge #43

Compromise all servers and all client machines using social engineering and bribes. Replace all servers and clients with implementations conforming to the DRM based web. They'll thank us later.

>>45
It's not funny if it's actually happening ;_;

one thing I would like in sexp would be to use \ (just like C) to escape characters than the thing that xml and lisp are using
(example: (b \)niggers\\) would print )niggers\

>>34
I don't understand why you're transforming a fatal flaw into a benefit for both user and ``coder''.

Why do you insist on this? If the web had been strict from the very beginning, we wouldn't have bad Shiitchans to begin with.

It's not a matter of making a turd and then expect the browser to sugarcoat your turd. Sure, the sloppy parsing is good for the current web, but we're proposing here a new web and you're mixing up the disadvantages of the old web with the advantages of the new web.

>>38
Realistically speaking, the current web has way too much momentum for this proposal to ever be accepted by the mainstream. If we want to make this a real thing, we ought to use it for our new hypothetical Scheme textboard, a /prog/ repository with a Lispweb interface, a SICP-themed roguelike in Scheme as a proof of concept for the Scheme ``web scripts'', and maybe throw a few extras.

We'll never be able to reboot the web, everyone is too busy jerking off to their social Javascript feminist coding apps.

>>48

We'll never be able to reboot the web, everyone is too busy jerking off to their social Javascript feminist coding apps.

we should make a hipster, feminist javascript/ruby/python/rust/something thing to compile to our scheme thing then. Hipsters will love it
another thing would be to have a XSLT/javashit thing to compile our scheme thing to html at runtime or use a firefox extencion for this so normal people will be able to use schemeweb

>>49
Why would we want normal people using the Lispweb? That's what the containment web is for.

>>49
I don't want to be the one who makes the translator. I don't see any reason for wanting Ruby rockstars in the Lispweb either.

Suggestion:
lambdacoin, a Lisp-based Cryptocurrency for the Lispweb.

we should make a hipster, feminist javascript/ruby/python/rust/something thing to compile to our scheme thing then. Hipsters will love it

you're fired!

>>50,52,53
I am not the one who said it! I swear, >>49 is a cloan!

>>47
In some older r5rs scheme implementations you can have backslashes in symbols to introduce special characters.


(define variables\ with\ spaces 3)
(display variables\ with\ spaces)


In common lisp you use |variables with spaces|.

>>39
So, if something isn't a programming language, it must be as shitty as it can be?

You're comparing a language that conforms to its own grammar to the firmware for a nuclear reactor. Your mediocrity is astounding. Are you also trying to say every novel written from now on is allowed have wrong grammar and spelling just to cater the people who didn't take English 101?

>>56
Don't worry, some paranoid guy shitting out nonconformant HTML in notepad with unclosed capitalized tags for his geocities page about how painful the alien rape was isn't going to diminish the value of the next great program you're going to write just as soon as you stop mashing F5 at time wasting site like this one and watching child gymnastics videos on Youtube.

>>47
Xarn-sama suggested using {} instead of () and allowing the escaping of characters in his Sexpcode implementation reference.

>>57
I don't understand where you're getting at.

We already agreed on the sloppiness of the current web being a convenient thing for both users and shitty brogrammers. There's no reason to repeat this over again, though.

>>58
A good suggestion, parens are way too common in generic text. Makes the markup more readable, too.

How minimalistic is this going to be? >>1—san mentioned scripting, but there is "send something to a BiSex API when the button is clicked"-scripting and "lets port Linux to Javashit"-scripting. This influences a fair share of other parts.

>>59
No matter how hard you try, there does not exist and valid solution for preventing browsers from preventing this behavior. Besides that, there are valid reasons for accepting malformed code. For example, what if the connection drops when the page is 90% transferred. Would you rather the browser display what it has and make it look as good as possible, or display an error and show nothing else.

And again, it is only markup. It is not really all that important. Being annoyed by sloppiness there is like refusing to read a text file because the line breaks aren't consistent. Annoying, yes, but is only formatting. As for the sloppy behaviors that lead to implementation specific rendering, that is irrelevant too. If the presentation was so important, then it should have been made in TEX, or a PDF, or saved as a PNG image, which have rigid standards that are complex enough that fools won't even know how to start fucking it up.

>>61
If the connection dropped, you have to reload anyway because the page is incomplete.

IHBT

>>34
When you write a program in lisp the parens in your code are balanced, otherwise you get a compile error.

When you program a web server/web site for this sexp based web (really need a short unique name to refer to it...) the page will be a quoted/quasiquoted sexp - so a server will never emit unbalanced data unless it crashes or something.

A page could also be constructed like data constructors in a language like haskell, making sure that even more structure about the page is correct at compile time (e.g. it could stop you putting a <title> outside <head>) but still let you put pages them together dynamically.

>>48
Yeah, no one can reboot the web - its beyond critical mass and it's stampeding in a direction that a few people don't want to get dragged along with. that said, we can definitely create something new which serves its own purpose well, cutting out a lot of awful things and learning from mistakes of the past.

>>62
No that is not always necessary, you fucking idiot. Not everything is a AJAX RESTful webAPI dependent shit page like facebook or YouTube that has to have tons of shit to even load. Go back to /g/.

>>63

really need a short unique name to refer to it...

We already have LispWeb.

>>65
https://twitter.com/pavelpenev/status/286151255506706432

>>65
http://yuri.tcup.ca/lispweb/

>>66-67
An obscure irc channel and a japanese site that hasn't been updated in years? We'd be fine. But if you don't like LispWeb how about LispNet? Or maybe SicpNet? AbelsonNet?

lisp net - linet

pronounced like lain net but fast

>>69
I like it.

>>69
http://www.linet.com/

>>71
who gives a shit

>>69
LINET does not only offer its customers top-quality beds, mattresses and other products, but also a number of related and additional services. They are designed so a customer can make the maximum use of the technological and functional potential of LINET products.

Customer support is prepared at any time to reply to any queries or help resolve any problem. And in addition to this, customers can choose from a wide range of innovative services, such as bed fleet optimisation, product operation training, education of non-doctor medical professionals in clinical practice and advice on equipping an interior in medical facilities.

>>61

If the presentation was so important, then it should have been made in TEX, or a PDF, or saved as a PNG image,

Presentation is important, and markup [b]is[/b] presentation. Yes, I'd rather not see anything at all than have a crappy web page made by a Javashit fanboy who can't be trusted with a keyboard because ``sloppiness is the way to go''.

Being annoyed by sloppiness there is like refusing to read a text file because the line breaks aren't consistent

Extraneous line breaks can be ignored safely (and can be annoying), badly closed tags and inconsistent markup cost you the modest price of writing a parser to deal with everyone's shit.

XML is shit, HTML is shit, you are sloppy shit. Fuck you, I hope you choke in a bag of badly formatted nigger dicks. You and your kind are the reason I need a goddamn parser to get two shitposts from /prog/ instead of being able to do it with sed without suffering from an anal aneurysm. All this shit I have to put up with because you all are lazy fucks. Seriously, fuck you.

If Linet is taken, why not use The Wired?

>>75
what would the benefit of naming this after a childrens cartoon be?

web and net are both 3 letters long, therefore a good start would be this list: http://www.yak.net/kablooey/scrabble/3letterwords.html

>>77
TUP to copulate with a ewe

>>76
The Wired is not a children's cartoon, it's a global network.

>>77
nig