Return Styles: Pseud0ch, Terminal, Valhalla, NES, Geocities, Blue Moon.

Pages: 1-4041-

[$$$]Top Ten Languages for Beginners[LIST] (523) 2: fuck

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-28 19:19

⑩. HTML and Javascript
It's better than PHP, but why on earth would you want to do this to a person? HTML isn't a programming language, so fuck right on off with that shit. JS isn't too bad as a document scripting language, but even there it's easy to push against the walls of what can be done safely. The only upside to it is that it is so ubiquitous that anyone with a computer sold since 1995 can jump in and fuck around with the basics of it. The downsides are far worse. Because web `developers' are retards, browsers do basically everything in their power to allow anything. The quality varies widely and no standard is really adhered to, except maybe in Opera, which no one uses precisely because it expects a perfect world and breaks everywhere. Also, the language is inconsistent to the point of insanity. What the fuck does this do? I'll leave that up to you, but if you expected anything more than loosely connected to what it means in other languages, then you are wrong. And the scoping, what?
On the other hand, Brandon is a fag basher, so that's a few points in JS's favor.
Final Rating: 4.5/5

⑨. C++
Sepples could more accurately be called a family of languages that share syntax and a library. There's functional C, C with Classes, imperative C, Java with manual memory management, and plain C with better comments. The object-orientation is usually the least useful aspects of C++. You don't need those classes and objects. Get over yourself. Save time by not having them, use structs instead. Then you won't have to make a copy constructor, move constructor, copy assignment constructor, move assignment constructor, and a destructor just to make your program run better than dogshit just because the compiler likes to pass by value. On the other hand, it is useful to not pollute the namespace for every tiny function that operates on a type. This is made easier in C++, which allows member functions inside structures. Since C support is basically forgotten in most compilers, you'll end up having to compile most of it as C++ anyway.
Final Rating: 4.7/5

⑧. Java
Many programmers take issue with Java being used as a teaching language, and many of their complaints aren't unfounded. The typical study of Java starts with basic syntax, which would not too terrible for writing simple programs if it didn't include asinine formatting preferences as well. Moving on, the student continues into the basic study of classes and how Sun\Oracle\Circlejerking Ivory-tower Academics would like you to use them. The student is typically asked to write a simple class and have twenty different derived classes that override only the toString() function. After that, more bizarre class rituals that are made artificially complicated to disguise the fact that horrible design practices are being taught in place of real programming. After this, the student can expect to either move on to drawing smiley faces with Swing or File IO. Typically, the pretense that it is necessary to pollute the class hierarchy with Human->Employee->Doctor->Pediatrician->Surgeon->HeartSurgeon is dropped as soon as that section is over because the grader is tired of having to review 60 different files for what should be a 50 line program.
So if Java teaches stupid habits and has a tendency to destroy interest in programming with its own bureaucracy, why is it on this list? Because these are all good ENTERPRISE practices. Statistically speaking, most computer science graduates will be working there, so they'd better learn the jargon now. Additionally, Java makes it easy to make you look super-productive. No problem is too small to throw another class at, which, if done properly, gives hundreds of line of code more than doing it any practical way. If the student can't hack it in school, then they probably aren't going to be able to do it in an industry run by people who have no clue about programming. Then they won't find a job, then they will starve, then they will die. Or they might move back to their parents' house and watch anime for 12 hours a day until they die of heart failure.
Final Rating: 4.6/5

⑦. The language is irrelevant
As long as it is Turing complete, any student who really gives a shit will be able to learn something from it.
Final Rating: 4.99/5

⑥. x86 Assembly
On the internet lived a tranny named Cudder
Shilling for Intel was her bread and butter
There were no design choices too inane
Or complexity causing too much pain
For praises for her to not utter.

I don't actually know if Cudder would recommend IA to be taught to students as a first language, but I wanted to have a poem in here somewhere. It's a terrible idea though. Mastering assembly should definitely be on the to-do list of any aspiring programmer, but not for actually programming with. Assembly should be learned for the same reason as Haskell, because it will help you get a deeper understanding. While Haskell will give a more abstract view from computer science perspective, Assembly will give the programmer a valuable insight into the computer as a machine, and what is going on behind the scenes. Learning assembly is just as valuable as knowing how to build simply logic gates out of circuits. It will be fun and interesting, but will only be useful if you have some sort of background.
Final Rating: 4.83/5

⑤. Python
Not the worst choice in the world. The type system can be awkward at times, but less so than many others. Anything that was added to the language after the initial design is clunky and weird (lambda expressions, for instance). Also, FIOC. All in all, a language of mediocrity for mediocre programmers. But that's okay. It's easy to crank out and simple to read. It will be easy for a beginner to jump in and see the results of their experiments immediately.
Final Rating: 4.69/5

④. R
What? Why? Why would anyone need this, much less a beginner? Get fucked.
Final Rating: 4.1/5

③. Haskell
Haskell is a masturbatory language that attracts the sorts of people that get aroused by reading a math textbook. The entire language is designed to obstruct doing anything useful, and in many cases makes it impossible. But that's okay, because you can just use the impure facilities. Sure, it defeats the purpose of using Haskell in the first place, but fuck it, Monad is sexy.
BUT, it's actually not too bad to use for pedalogy. Unlike most languages, it doesn't tend towards code monkeyisms. If the student gains a good understanding of Haskell (and why certain things are the way they are), they will have a good platform on which to do interesting things, though hopefully in a different language. Be a man, use Scheme.
Final Rating: 4.5/5

②. BASIC
Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code. BASIC, from here on referred to as Basic, is basically a dead language. Many circlejerking academics and bloggers would tell of how Dijkstra proved that Basic was ruining students. Well they can go fuck themselves. Pretty much everything that they mention as a flaw they praise as wonderful in other languages. It's basically a bunch of idiots who know nothing jumping on the Dijkstra bandwagon to look like intellectuals. Well fuck Dijkstra. He was a self-important asshole who self-published his own quotes. He wasn't totally incorrect, Basic is inappropriate for building large, complex projects with many subcomponents in. But that's not what it was for, you fucking twat. It's right there in the fucking title, it is for beginners. And now that Basic is a pariah and Pascal has been forgotten, schools have no language designed for beginners, and they typically use Java instead. Was that really an improvement?
Final Rating: 4.75/5

①. Scheme
The former favored language of computer science. Scheme is a minimalistic language (or was, until R6RS) that is excellent for demonstrating computer science concepts. It was usually the first functional language that the student was ever exposed, so it was not learning Scheme itself that was the challenge (if learning Scheme syntax was a problem, you are an idiot), it was learning to think in processes from a mathematical prospective. It's not really used anymore though, and it can be hard to do anything `useful' with it. After using Scheme as a diaper for a while, the student should move to the Common Lisp for his big-boy potty training where he learns how to use all those cool techniques to do real things.
Final Rating: 4.9/5

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-28 19:30

Who's Brandon and fags should be bashed, with clubs and stones.

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-28 19:33

>>2
Brendan is just a hipster way of spelling Brandon.

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-28 19:36

>>3
That does really answer the question.

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-28 21:03

>>1
VIP quality post, would read 5 times.

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-28 21:14

This BBS software is vulnerable to the thread title injection attack

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-28 21:31

C++ blah blah
A pile of BS. The language is reprehensible, but not because it allows classes (PROTIP in C++ struct is exactly the same as class, modulo default access specifier which is public for struct and private for class). Not sure if OP has used it for more than a month.

Human->Employee->Doctor->Pediatrician->Surgeon->HeartSurgeon
This puzzles me every time. Are there any actual non-tutorial programs that use ridiculous class inheritance hierarchies like the quoted one?

assembly deeper understanding blah blah
Another pile of bullshit. Being able to read and occasionally write assembly of your every target architecture is as crucial as knowing a shit or two about profiling: if you want any sort of performance from a C or C++ program (or a deluge of shitcode from your own compiler for your toy shitlanguage), you read what it produces and recognize which optimization techniques it failed to apply to a particular section. Understanding assembly is fucking practical in itself.

haskel sux lel
Haskell is surprisingly practical if you are not a retard. For some tasks it is more practical than Python (for some IO-intensive tasks even!)

bah bah Scheme is good but is it the Sussman good
Scheme R5RS is not really minimalistic either, and many of its core concepts are confusing even to mature programmers (think call-with-current-continuation and especially bounded shift/reset).

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-28 21:41

⑦. The language is irrelevant
Then why make a list?

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-28 21:46

Excuse me, >>7-san, may I know the source of these intriguing quotes?

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-28 23:02

>>9
Fuck off, ``faggot''.

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-28 23:51

>>7
AHAHAH U MAD HUSKEL NERD HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH LISP IS FOR NON-VIRGINS LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL LOOK AT TWITTER, ALL THE FEMINISTS USE HUSKELL LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL U MAD

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-29 4:19

shift/reset my anus

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-29 7:10

>>7
PROTIP in C++ struct is exactly the same as class, modulo default access specifier which is public for struct and private for class
I should have clarified what I meant, which was to use static member functions in the namespace of the struct. For example, I have made a comparison (http://p.pomf.se/4800), where I demonstrate my superior struct based version which is just as clear and much less complex internally. I will eventually get around to experimenting with the effects of all the different constructors and their effect on passing. Maybe this weekend.

Are there any actual non-tutorial programs that use ridiculous class inheritance hierarchies like the quoted one?
That's how it was at the place where I did my senior internship. The `senior' developers would draw these stupid diagrams and flowcharts and the junior programmers would implement them while I got them coffee. They did go bankrupt later though.

Being able to read and occasionally write assembly[...]
This is a list for beginners. And nothing you wrote conflicts with anything I did.

Haskell is surprisingly practical if you are not a retard. For some tasks it is more practical than Python
Scheme R5RS is not really minimalistic either, and many of its core concepts are confusing even to mature programmers
No.

>>8
Because I fucking felt like writing a list. It's my list and I spent like 45 minutes on it, so fuck off. In fact, I think I'll make lots more in the future maybe.

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-29 8:52

>>13
I should have clarified what I meant, which was to use static member functions in the namespace of the struct
Why not use C++ namespaces then asshole, as this is exactly what they are for

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-29 17:01

Where the fuck is C?

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-29 17:09

>>15
It's obviously not a language for beginners.

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-29 17:54

>>1

$ python3
Python 3.3.5 (default, Mar 27 2014, 17:16:46) [GCC] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> x='⑩'
>>> import unicodedata
>>> unicodedata.name(x)
'CIRCLED NUMBER TEN'
>>> unicodedata.name(chr(ord(x)+1))
'CIRCLED NUMBER ELEVEN'
>>> unicodedata.name(chr(ord(x)+5))
'CIRCLED NUMBER FIFTEEN'
>>> unicodedata.name(chr(ord(x)+6))
'CIRCLED NUMBER SIXTEEN'
>>> unicodedata.name(chr(ord(x)+8))
'CIRCLED NUMBER EIGHTEEN'
>>> unicodedata.name(chr(ord(x)+10))
'CIRCLED NUMBER TWENTY'
>>> unicodedata.name(chr(ord(x)+11))
'PARENTHESIZED DIGIT ONE'
>>> chr(ord(x)+5)
'⑮'
>>> chr(ord(x)+11)
'⑴'
>>>


THANKS A LOT UNICODE !!!

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-30 2:58

>>16
But C++ is, right?

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-30 18:04

>>18
Yes, no experienced programmer would use it.

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-31 16:52

I'm yet to see a real-world use case for OOA/OOP where some other ``paradigm'' of architecture/programming would not fit better and get in your way less.

The first person to bring up decomposition (a supposed strong side of OOP) gets smacked in the face with a 42×12×4 cm granite block.

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-31 18:17

>>20
GUI.

Name: Anonymous 2014-10-31 22:11

>>21
GUI is a horrible example actually. OOP never fit it quite well from a programming point of view - the mapping between what the user sees and what bits move is necessarily verbose and clumsy, and OOA is completely useless when talking about interfaces and designing them.1

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-01 0:18

>>22
Nice dubs bro

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-01 7:53

>>22
OOP is used to organize code into manageable units and facilitate unit-testing.

Lisp has no OOP, so you can't provide a list exploiting parallelism, while still using the same code to work with it, like with usual lists, becase CAR and CDR are hardcoded.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-01 7:54

>>7
many of its core concepts are confusing even to mature programmers (think call-with-current-continuation and especially bounded shift/reset).
You mean "to mature imperative programmers". You know, the ones who got their education out of Stroustrup's ass and now their minds are all backwards. Programmers who learned from actual intelligent men have no problem with delimited continuations.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-01 7:57

>>22
GUI is an excellent example as it greatly simplifies the creation of custom components with custom behavior from a hierarchy of pre-defined ones.
>>24
Lisp has OOP, it's called "CLOS".

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-01 7:58

>>22

GUI is a horrible example actually.
Actually, to implement GUI, I had to introduce OOP in the early version of Symta. At first Symta's OOP used assoc-lists, but it quickly proven not exactly a robust solution, so had to provide full-blown OOP with vtables.

Now I can treat a file as a list of integers, without loading it completely into memory and wasting space converting every byte to 64-bit fixnums. You can't do that without OOP.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-01 7:59

>>26

Lisp has OOP, it's called "CLOS".
CLOS is very different approach to OOP and solves wrong problems. I.e. CLOS doesn't allow you to redefine CAR and CDR.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-01 8:50

>>28
Common Lisp is much more OOP than Javashit and the rest of the "entreprise" languages.
Also what the fuck does redefining cars have to do with OOP, Rubyfag? Common Lisp has MOP which is a lot more powerful and important.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-01 9:01

>>27
Vtables have nothing to do with OOP.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-01 9:05

>>24
Again, having ``interfaces'' has little to do with the Simula/C++-style OOP you are advocating. Haskell manages handsomely without OOP while having a direct and more powerful replacement for interfaces.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-01 9:48

>>30
vtables are the only efficient way to implement OOP. For example, there is no simple way to implement CLOS methods or inheritance efficiently. JIT and run-time analysis ain't efficient.

>>29
Common Lisp is much more OOP than Javashit and the rest of the "entreprise" languages.
In what way? Using call-next-method must very elegant...

Also what the fuck does redefining cars have to do with OOP,
Can you apply CAR or CDR to any other type than CONS? Then why are they standalone? To produce more mess?

Common Lisp has MOP which is a lot more powerful and important.
As I said, it solves wrong problems in a wrong way.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-01 11:09

>>32
Just plain having multimethods puts Common Lisp way above the mainstream "OOP".

Then why are they standalone? To produce more mess?
Because without them LISt Processing wouldn't be LISt Processing, you dolt. Are you one of the retards who think that Java and C# aren't OO because they have unboxed value types?

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-01 11:59

>>33

Because without them LISt Processing wouldn't be LISt Processing, you dolt.
LISP is any language, which uses lists to represent it's code, making it possible to introduce code transforming macros. This also implies succinct notation for lists (without annoying `,` between elements). How exactly making CAR and CDR methods would stop LISP from being a LISP?

Are you one of the retards who think that Java and C# aren't OO because they have unboxed value types?
Java and C# ain't OO, because they are class centered, not object centered. I.e. Java and C# are Class Oriented programming languages. They are poor man's Haskells.

"Actually I made up the term "object-oriented", and I can tell you I did not have C++ in mind." -- Alan Kay

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-01 12:26

COP: Class-Oriented Programming

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-03 14:53

PIG: Pattern-Interfaced Generics

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-06 19:27

>>1
What about APL, Forth, ATS? You fucking numbskull, no one is interested in reading reviews of shit everyone already has their mouths full with.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-07 2:12

>>37
APL
It's shit.

Forth
It's shit.

ATS
It's shit.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-07 2:44

Regarding a specific programming language or programming languages in general as ``shit'' is now a meme and therefore defaults the claim to baseless, unfounded, false, and absurd.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-07 2:45

>>39
Retard

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-07 3:52

>>39
Ey's shit.

Name: Huskellfaggot 2014-11-07 9:43

>>38

APL/K/J are all great for data and computational intensive tasks that need to be written quickly.

Forth is pretty awesome actually. Its creator is either insane or genouis, its hard to tell which. Its meta linguistic facilities are on par with lisp. while it is a stack machine, it gets great performance. Of course, its emphasis on simplicity can be a bit extreme. Its data model does need some work though

ATS, never used it. Having read about it, would rather use Coq.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-07 11:29

Forth
One word: THE LACK OF FORMAL PARAMETERS.
At least use postscript like this dude: http://www.pugo.org:8080/.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-07 12:07

>>43

A FORTHer would respond by saying formal parameters ruin homoiconcity and complicate the language. You can, however, implement them in forth.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-07 15:54

Mentishit is written in Forth, so it's obviously good.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-08 4:24

Why isn't Perl on this list?

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-08 8:16

>>46
Because it's worthless and dead.

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-08 10:51

Why isn't OpenEdge Advanced Business Language on this list?

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-08 11:54

Why isn't

Hugely
Asyncronous
Xtensible
Accelerated
Numerical
User-oriented
Scriptlanguage

on this list?

Name: Anonymous 2014-11-08 20:16

>>47
And won't even be ready til next year.

Don't change these.
Name: Email:
Entire Thread Thread List