/prog/ - what the fuck is so good about SGML

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 2:15

hurr le XML is le bad but le SGML is awesome!!!!!!!11!!

What's sooooo good about it?

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 2:23

What's the alternative? Fucking sexp?
It's way more readable than ((()())(())()())(((((((())))()()())()()))))))))()())) everywhere.

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 3:25

Who said SGML was ``good"? CSV is better.

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 11:07

the only person who thought that XML is bad but SGML is good was Naggum

>>2

What's the alternative? Fucking sexp?

and also JSON, YAML, CSV, INI (depending on the particular use case)

It's way more readable than ((()())(())()())(((((((())))()()())()()))))))))()())) everywhere.

I don't see how parens are worse than angle brackets. the biggest disadvantage of XML is not the choice of delimitation symbols, it's the verbosity. do you really prefer


<xml schema:http://kihnjkdhnuisahssm.nm.s version=-3.137>
  <hax>
    <anus owner="me" />
  </hax>
</xml>

over


(hax
  (anus :my))

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 13:49

>>4
That's a very simple example.

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 14:28

>>5
That's not much of an argument.

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 16:35

hurr le XML is le bad but le SGML is awesome!!!!!!!11!!

Nobody said that. SGML is also shitty (it is slightly better than xml however as you can do </>)

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 16:36

>>4
JSON and YAML are even worse.

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 18:35

Take a good idea out of its infancy, let it age without
guidance so it does not mature, and it generally goes bad. If GML
was an infant, SGML is the bright youngster far exceeds expectations
and made its parents too proud, but XML is the drug-addicted gang
member who had committed his first murder before he had sex, which
was rape.

Naggum said this. What does he like so much about SGML? The original thread was about s-exps vs XML too, no idea why he's saying that.

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 20:52

>>9
The Right Thing vs Worse is Better

Name: VIPPER 2017-08-11 21:29

http://wiki.c2.com/?XmlIsaPoorCopyOfEssExpressions

_{"Think of XML as Lisp for COBOL programmers."}

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-12 0:37

>>4
Naggum said it was better, not good.

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-12 5:54

>>11
Think of C2 as the bastard child of /r/programming and Know Your Meme.

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-12 15:50

>>13
c2 is way older than both.

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-12 16:00

>>11

"Think of XML as Lisp for COBOL programmers."

This makes no sense.

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-12 20:46

XML makes COBOL an acceptable ``Lisp''

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-13 1:58

>>14
Good for them. It's still a shitty place.

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-13 16:43

>>9


<!ELEMENT Q - - (%inline;)*            -- short inline quotation -->
<!ATTLIST Q
  %attrs;                              -- %coreattrs, %i18n, %events --
  cite        %URI;          #IMPLIED  -- URI for source document or msg --
  >

FAR EXCEEDS EXPECTATIONS

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-14 6:51

>>5
in more complex examples the markup diarrhea of XML becomes even worse
>>8
I dunno, they're much more readable

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-14 8:27

>>19
Well, in complex sexp, the diarrhea also becomes worse.

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-14 10:27

>>20
disagree. complex sexps are readable as long as they're indented and spaced properly

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-14 10:59

>>21
So is complex xml

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-14 11:25

>>19
It's not a complex syntax if it can be parsed by a simple regular expression.

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-14 13:42

>>22
not really,the more elements in the tree the less readable the XML due to verbosity needed for each element

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-15 1:01

>>24
behold, a nested xml example

<a>
  <b>
    <c>
      <c1></c1>
      <d>
        <e>
          <f>
            <g>
              <g1></g1>
              <h>
                <i>
                  <j>
                    <k>
                      <l>
                        <m>
                          <m_test></m_test>
                          <n>
                            <o>
                              <p>
                                <q>
                                  <r>
                                    <s>
                                      <t>
                                        <u>
                                          <v>
                                            <w>
                                              <x>
                                                <y>
                                                  <z></z>
                                                </y>
                                              </x>
                                            </w>
                                          </v>
                                        </u>
                                      </t>
                                    </s>
                                  </r>
                                </q>
                              </p>
                            </o>
                          </n>
                        </m>
                      </l>
                    </k>
                  </j>
                </i>
              </h>
            </g>
          </f>
        </e>
      </d>
    </c>
  </b>
</a>

now in sexp:

(a
  (b
    (c
      (c1)
      (d
        (e
          (f
            (g
              (g1)
              (h
                (i
                  (j
                    (k
                      (l
                        (m
                          (m_test)
                          (n
                            (o
                              (p
                                (q
                                  (r
                                    (s
                                      (t
                                        (u
                                          (v
                                            (w
                                              (x
                                                (y
                                                  (z))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-15 17:05

>>24
Not really

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-15 22:22

>>25
The sexp example isn't indented.

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-15 22:24

>>27
who cares

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-15 22:29

>>28
now see FrozenAnus come and remove all whitespace/linefeeds from it

Name: Anonymous 2017-08-18 0:14

JSON isn't so bad.

what the fuck is so good about SGML

1 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 2:15

2 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 2:23

3 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 3:25

4 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 11:07

5 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 13:49

6 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 14:28

7 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 16:35

8 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 16:36

9 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 18:35

10 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-11 20:52

11 Name: VIPPER 2017-08-11 21:29

12 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-12 0:37

13 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-12 5:54

14 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-12 15:50

15 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-12 16:00

16 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-12 20:46

17 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-13 1:58

18 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-13 16:43

19 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-14 6:51

20 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-14 8:27

21 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-14 10:27

22 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-14 10:59

23 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-14 11:25

24 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-14 13:42

25 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-15 1:01

26 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-15 17:05

27 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-15 22:22

28 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-15 22:24

29 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-15 22:29

30 Name: Anonymous 2017-08-18 0:14