ITT we discuss how to collaboratively design our games.
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Anonymous2018-10-02 16:08
Turn-based vs Real-time: I changed my mind from "real-time is the king of gaming". I thought for a while and now i have actually arguments for turn-based gaming(considered boring and slow). 1.Top-level performance: Turn-based means everything is not reacting after the turn. i.e. rendering, sounds and dynamic effects are one-time expense. Raytracing everything is possible. Much higher quality of everything. Time to procedurally generate stuff.
2.Actual long-term strategy with discrete steps: chess allows planning because steps are discrete and not dependent on timing(except maybe a timer for 1minute per turn, so a player can't drag a game forever). Discrete starcraft would allow novices to copy openings and execute them flawlessly, without speed requirements(300 actions per minute). It also allows composing openings and evaluating each strategy without external interferance. Discrete diablo-clones/ARPG would need something like "stop time" after each attack, i.e. you attack->monsters counter-attack->their attack ends-> time freezes until you act. So the gameplay CAN BE SEAMLESS like real-time and not "select options for next turn" cludges typical of turn-based RPG.
3.More options for combat mechanics: Discrete mechanics allow "turns" to be considered as time units and modifiers can affect them instead of time. In RPGs,DPS becomes obsolete. Players can prepare custom attacks. In RTSs, first attack become critical too, dps-based "strategies" replaced by micro-management and unit selection. Micromanagement becomes much easier in all genres you have time to craft any tactics.
4.Balancing becomes easier: Players no long have timing advantages. Everything is much easier to compare withing discrete steps.
5.Less demanding skills from player base: Elite twitch skills are not required anymore. Casual gamers can easily try anything and replicate any tactic.
6.Discrete turns can be analyzed and understood much easily than chaos of real-time gaming.
7.Games can be saved and reloaded at any step easily;i.e. you can time-travel to any part of the game and replay it within the game.
8.Real-time actions can be separated into discrete chunks:i.e. you don't need to tell a Starcraft drone to move 50 times. You can order it to move once, and each turn it will move one step. Micromanagement isn't mandatory.
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Anonymous2018-10-02 16:32
>>281 That is more like a hybrid turn-based/real-time, not pure turn-based design.
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Anonymous2018-10-02 16:46
The most important advantage of turn-based stuff, is ability to 'pause' at anytime by simply not playing. A phonecall? The game can wait. Urgent email? Just switch to it. Want to read something? Game won't bother you. Turn-based is the real "casual" gaming.
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Anonymous2018-10-02 17:30
The end of real-time competitive gaming is new neural-network bots: Eventually a 300APM human will be outplayed by 10000APM bot, just because humans are slower and have "reaction times". A turn-based design will survive this.
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Anonymous2018-10-02 21:56
>>284 but even a turn-based game can have so many combination possibilities that a human can never try them all in their life, so a computer can brute-force moves to learn about which ones are better or worse
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Anonymous2018-10-02 22:07
The only winning move is to not play.
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Anonymous2018-10-03 4:00
>>285 Turns out, combinatory explosion of most video games move trees prevents that. Suppose you play discrete Starcraft. Each turn you have like 500-1000 valid choices which spawn next unique 500-1000 valid choices(utterly dependent on previous ones). Thats orders of magnitude more than any board game.
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Anonymous2018-10-03 5:45
>>287 starcraft is not turn-based turn-based games: final fantasy, chess, checkers, tic-tac-toe, etc.
New insight: A videogame must appeal to NPC basic desires to have any success. It also cannot be too complex or too abstract. Designing a game for PCs will result in failure or very niche audience of PCs with tastes similar to yourself.
>>305 You cannot be a good (game) designer if you hold any sizable part of humanity in contempt. And I suspect this is true even if you want to design it for your sole enjoyment.
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Anonymous2018-10-17 15:31
>>308 Just like Linux being a superior operating system doesn't interest the vast majority of Windows users...
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Anonymous2018-10-17 18:59
>>309 How can it be superior if it's harder to leaen?
If your're are game works on square grid and characters can move diagonally, then you will break pythagoras theorem. Consider playfield: 5 + + + + + 4 + + + + + 3 + + + + + 2 + + + + + 1 + + + + + 0 1 2 3 4 5
getting from (0,0) to (5,5) would require just 5 movements diagonally, instead sqrt(5^2+5^2). So allowing hexagonal movement is a very bad idea that will confuse players. That is why most game designers prefer hexagonal playfields.
Solutions: 1. Disallow diagonal movement (Final Fantasy Tactics doesn't allow it). 2. Move to proper continuous euclidean space. 3. Make diagonal movement cost sqrt(2) tine units, instead of 1. Viable alternative for realtime strategies, where engine calculates it under the hood, but turn-based players will hate you and your game.
So yes, just use hexagons or other similar lattice.
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Anonymous2018-10-20 19:11
>>313 morrowind speed runners run diagonally because it makes you go faster because you're getting the speed of running forward added to the speed of running sideways, and the dumb way the multi-directional movement works, it treated holding forward and right as basically moving twice as fast instead of just one speed or the other
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Anonymous2018-10-20 20:10
>>314 Morrowind uses continuous space, so that is an example of some really bad coding from AAA devs. I'm surprised such idiotic bug got past testers and all the internal scrutiny.
>>316 they can always pretend that it allows for a higher skill cap, even if it is an unintended game mechanic
here's another example of an unintended mechanic: bunnyhopping in source engine games, which has lead to mods that make use of bhop only and nothing else: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZVjT6-ejUM this mod is based on a first person shooter, but as you can see, it has nothing to do with FPSes