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WebRTC

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-12 22:32

http://www.webrtc.org/
WebRTC is a free, open project that enables web browsers with Real-Time Communications (RTC) capabilities via simple JavaScript APIs.
It's basically p2p in the browser without flash.
Discuss.

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-14 0:51

>>16
Ignore this newfag. He isn't even saging and I doubt he can even use the right style of quotation marks.

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-14 1:20

>>16
I think I might have some answers to "what better UI platforms are there" but could you please tell me what exactly the responsibilities of a platform are (to you) first; this might save a lot of miscommunication.

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-14 1:20

>>18
This is for you, Anon. The ones that sit at home on the weekends because your friends are off being someone you're not. The ones that surf /prog/ for a chance to smile, a chance to laugh, and sometimes a chance to baw. The ones that tear up at the tale of a forgotten kitten, but snicker when a cam whore is being verbally assaulted. The ones that white knight, the ones that call out the white knights, and the ones that need the white knights. The ones who turn to /prog/ when their significant others cheat on them with their best friend. The ones who don't have significant others. To the ones that think of witty responses not a heartbeat after reading a post, and to the ones that don't think of them until the thread goes off the front page. The ones that see a code golf competition and still take a bite of their sandwich. This is to the ones that are the most amazing people I've ever had the privilege of talking to, but still can't find a person to appreciate them like we do. The ones that long to fall asleep holding a certain person's hand but are too shy to even talk to them. The quiet girl who is the sweetest, funniest, cutest girl, but doesn't get a second glance. The misunderstood guy, who always says funny things, but people take them the wrong way, because they're close minded niggers. The ones that read the baw threads and call out everyone posting in them as faggots/newfags/etc, but still read every single post because they need to feel emotion. The ones that I wish I could give a hug to because I know even though they post the most soulless, cold, inane shit, they still have the need to feel loved. Well, Anon. I love you. And I would be honored to fall asleep while holding your hand.

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-14 3:48

*hugs >>20-kun
*hold's >>18-kun's hand

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-14 4:22

>>20
I know this is imageboard kopipe, but it still brought tears to my eyes.

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-14 19:23

>>22
The imageboards back in the day were grand and with great people on it.

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-15 1:43

>>19
A general platform is simply a collection of software technologies (API library), sometimes the platform has a special name to it. The platform's responsibility is to be the low level plumbing so that each app doesn't need to re-implement various low level work that is already completed by other people.

When I say the web is a UI platform, I mean that the web technologies (HTML, CSS, Javascript, SVG, MathML) can be used as the user interface to a given computer system. You can write a webmail interface to email, you can write a web interface to IRC, you can write a web interface to configure your system, you can write a web interface to report your company's data system. Just as you can do that using web technologies, you can also present the same services on the Android platform writing Android interfaces to all those services. Yes, it's possible to write interfaces using Win32, .Net, or QT5.

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-15 9:27

>>24
OK.

I suppose when the only responsibility of a platform is to do some `low level' work for you then the web, and indeed almost any `platform' performs satisfactorily.

However, the responsibilites of a platform are usually more than that.

Another, (perhaps better) word to describe the thing a platform is (i.e. the word preferred by at least one EXPERT programmer) is a magical tome ;) For a platform is really nothing more than a collection of related programs (`libraries', (operating) systems, interperters, compilers i.e spirits) and languages (the means of summoning, conjuring and taming those spirits). As with any other magical tome, the responsibilities of a computerly magical tome (i.e. what you call a `platform') are to give a wizard (even an apprentice) a means of efficient control (both in the ease in which the wizard may cast his spells, and in the economy of magic (i.e. machine resources) used) over some kind of essence (or matter), and in this specific case that essence is the graphical user interface.

From this point of view the web does not fulfill its responsibilities satisfactorily. Indeed, the languages of the web share disparate syntax (there are the SGML derivatives (i.e. HTML, SVG etc.) and then there are the C like ones (CSS and JavaScript) and disparate semantics; no language is defined in terms of the other (of the big three HTML, CSS and JavaScript (otherwise, I know of XHTML etc.)). This greatly limits the ability of a skilled wizard to weave the essence of the computer interface to his bidding, while also putting a great burden on the novice. Worse still the essence woven in one language fits poorly with the other, and the economy of magic (i.e. computing resources) is terrible!; much magic is wasted to no effect.

Now one step up is the ENTERPRISE programmer using e.g. C# (or some other CLR language), XAML, WPF and Microsoft's Visual Studio or Java (or some other JVM language), Swing, XML (maybe) and NetBeans. The pracitionares of these magics use programs and languages more closely intertwined then those discussed above, but many of the same mistakes are made.

But the state of the art, the noblest and most highly regarded tomes to weave the magic of the graphical use interface come from the revered school of Morphic and the revered school of Presentations, whose scholars include the most wisened Smalltalk and Lisp wizards.

Consider Morphic as implemented in Pharo. Every graphical object (or Morph from the Greek word for shape or form) is `just' a Smalltalk object. The ``document model'' is whatever Morphs are submorphs of the (some) WorldMorph, the presentation of a Morph is determined by sending a Morph messages, the logic the Morph obeys is whatever messages it receives from other Morphs (including the Morph which is the locus of user control (the Hand Morph)) or other Smalltalk objects. If the Morph should reflect some data model, then that model should sent it messages! A wizard who has read a tome of Morphic can masterfully and with ease manipulate the essence of the graphical use interface, for Morphic is nothing but a vocabulary ontop of the already powerful tome of Smalltlak. And most impressively of all, the same power is not lost with the user. There is no difference between a user of a Morphic system and the wizard which first called its spirit.

To put things in perspective, Morphic is the successor to MVC (the original Smalltalk GUI). The web is essentially MVC, as is e.g. WPF (but done badly!).

Now consider Presentations as implemented in Allegro Common Lisp's CLIM. Lisp objects are coupled with a graphical representation of that object called it's ``presentation''. A listener evaluates Lisp expressions associated with various means of interacting with a presentation (mouse or keyboard input), or those expresions explicitly typed in to the presentation of the object which is the listener (i.e. a command line) by the programmer or user (as with Morphic there is no distinction). A presentation (i.e. any graphic) may be referred to on the command line by simply clicking on it (it's textual representaion is pasted into the listener). Again, similar to Morphic, CLIM is a vocabulary on top of Common Lisp and the CLOS. The logic, presentation, and structure of graphical user interface are all wrtten in the same common CLIM language.

Lastly, consider the Mathematica Notebook. A Mathematica Notebook consists of cells, which are Mathematica expressions interperted by Mathematica as graphical objects. A cell is a presentation in a similar sense to a presentation in CLIM and other Lisp systems (Dynamic windows etc.). The exact appearance of a cell is controlled by convention by ``style data'' cells, which are like any other cell Mathematica expressions. However, as powerful as the Mathematica front end is, unlike CLIM, it is only skin deep, and much is hidden from you. For example the program which is the listener (i.e. the Notebook interface) and the program which renders cells is not (for all you know) written in Mathematica. And in this aspect how different is it from the web or ENTERPRISE?

Now notice the thing with both Allegro Common Lisp and Mathematica ``Presentations'' platforms. They are expensive. To use their full power the end user has to pay for them, and it is not cheap at all. A steep tribute (in the order of hundreds of US $) to Franz Inc. and Wolfram Inc. must be paid for each user that will use a program written using CLIM or Mathematica. Similarly the most turtly all the way down presentations based system of all, the holy and blessed Genera, is held in ransom by some jerk profiting from the DOD fixed maintenence contract on it (no maintenence is done or required) (afaict, this is a rumor). The open source CLIM is dead :(.

Luckily, Smalltalk systems have not shared the same fate despite being for a very long time held under ``over my dead body would I give the very best away for free'' types. They have now been liberated. There are two good open source Smalltalk systems and, additionaly, implementations of many great Smalltalk programs (e.g. Morphic).

Interestingly, Smalltalk programmers being frustrated with the web have created something like Morphic for the web in various forms (Seaside, Amber Smalltalk).

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-15 21:26

>>25
It's true that much is hidden in Mathematica notebooks. Try opening one in a text editor, it's full of garbled shit. What the fuck?

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-15 21:29

>>26
LOL. I suppose. It's not that bad. However, what I was referring to is Cell[], how the heck is Cell[] implemented? Probably not in Mathematica (the language). The turtles end there.

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-15 22:36

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-15 22:57

>>10
Why does everyone want to re-invent dumb terminals all the time? Do people not remember the whole reason PCs became popular in the first place? Who wants to go back to the shitty days of centralized control?

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-15 23:09

>>29
Who wants to go back ot the shitty days of centralized control?
The ones who will be at the center this time.

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-17 6:45

>>29
Centralized control is useful when there are a huge collection of computers that need to be under control i.e. it's good for big operations that have many operators and many user terminals, as is the case for a web interface to some computer service. People who work in small groups can self-manage a small number of self-contained systems like what happens in small businesses or homes.

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-17 11:41

>>31
Not really.

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-17 17:51

>>32
About which part?

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-17 18:51

>>32
I can see the point. As soon as you give the data, or the software to a person, and they can have it on their machine, they don't need you anymore. But if you have it, and they need to go through some web api to get it, they'll keep coming back for it, like a drug user to a dealer. And you can make revenue off of their continued access through your web api by mining their habits and showing advertising.

And then the users are happy because all of their le data is on le the cloud, and so they don't need to worry about their le work data on their le work laptop already being on their le home laptop when they come home.

tldr; controllers of the masses and the idiot masses like it.

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-17 20:08

>>34
I don't like this definition of `useful' :(

Name: Anonymous 2014-01-19 3:55

rah-re-re-re-rever-se ne-cro-o

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