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Game design for balancing

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-13 11:55

Alright guys, I've decided it. I'm writing up the biggest documentation resource on game design ever (mostly game balancing for now), and you guys can help me.

https://github.com/affiszervmention/permadeath

Game design as in making up rules, mechanics and gameplay, and things about implementation too, not as in level design, character design and things like that.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-13 12:24

Forgot to say it has a lot of collisions with computer science problems.

Here is a list of problems I aim to discuss for now:

**PROBLEMS**

+ inflation
+ power balance
+ cheating
+ bot majority (cheating)

**MEASURES**

*inflation*

+ asymptote/controlled drop rate
+ zero resource output

*power balance*

+ full loot
+ permadeath
+ classes/item tweaking (old, will not discuss it)
+ automatic balancing

*cheating*

+ obfuscation (yeah, that's a given; I won't discuss it)
+ zero sharing (could limit your game's beauty a lot)
+ many-player confirmation (but that creates a problem by itself: bot majority)

*bot majority*

+ cryptographic authentication (an open problem in crypto-currencies and CS in general, how to compete with the ever-evolving hardware?)

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-13 13:52

Could you explain the bot majority please? I'm not sure if I understand.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-13 14:05

Please stop crossposting on both /prog/s.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-13 14:57

>>4
why?

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 0:42

>>3
It's basically the same problem as distBB's authentication
problem.
This is only a problem if you implement the *many-player confirmation* measure, which is basically asking every player for their simulation result, then choosing what the majority decided.
One user could modify the client, spawn many processes and authenticate itself successfully in all of them, obtaining a network majority (he controls more bots than there are other players). He then could dictate everything that happens in the game to his will, essentially breaking it.
The only visible solution is thinking up a strong authentication method, either captchas or a crypto algorithm.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 0:48

Copypasta on why it might interest non-gamedev programmers
---

(also related to computer science)

Nope.

-------

Let me give some examples of how they relate.

For the general game balancing problem, the most talked about of the document, an automatic game balancing system is proposed. Now, what does automatically balancing a game consist of? When you have many kind of objects, and want to get them into an even playing field, well, you can't just make them all basically the same object, or have basically the same UTILITY (if you want me to explain this term just say so). That'd make the game too boring. What you can do though is regulate each object's presence in the game, with either a mapping of utility into [drop rate, spawn rate, simply object quantity], but even that doesn't seem to be enough. But still, let's talk about it. You'd need to make up a utility-finding function for all objects, and then you'd need to find out the minimum utility among all objects and the maximum one. Then you'd need to scale it: obj_quantity = J* obj_utility * (max_obj_utility- min_obj_utility) + K. Okay, that seems simple enough, nothing much to do with compsci, just a cool little algorithm, right? Like I said, it is not enough. The problem really starts when we get into a concept called utility sharing, which, as far as I know, is practically impossible to correctly calculate for a large amount of items. I aim to explain it better in the document, but wouldn't that problem count as an interesting compsci problem?

There's also the problem of anti-cheating and cryptography used for that, which I think is very interesting to computer science, and being innovative in that (as the document aims to be) would also interest it a lot (although I don't aim to specify any new cryptographing algorithms).

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 9:15

>>6
Just added a very interesting file, talking about a Distributed Game Server, which has that bot majority/51% attack problem. (many-player confirmation need not be in a distributed server)

https://github.com/affiszervmention/permadeath/blob/master/distributed_game_server.md

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 12:50

>>8
Why do you keep writing about things everyone and their mother knows already? It's like if you were using your Github as your blog/journal.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 14:26

>>9
Github is a blog/journal. Or at least it has been turned into one.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 14:55

>>8
You need to understand something right now: Nobody gives a shit. If, for some reason one of us does give a shit, we will follow your blog ourselves. Posting links to your writing does nothing except pointlessly change the bump order of threads.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 15:12

>>11
Alright, I guess I'll stop posting new links here.
Does anyone know how to add hyperlinks to the same document with Markdown?

>>9
I don't think these are things everyone and their mother knows already? (Maybe the 51% attack is, but the distributed game server without a central hosting client I've never seen tried.) My main focus is in analysing less known of, experimental or controversial game design proposals.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 15:23

>>12
Does anyone know how to add hyperlinks to the same document with Markdown?
Yes.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 15:27

>>12
Nor have I ever seen data on a proposed implementation of real-time data-synchronization **COMBINED** with a 51% attack prevention system. That is a lot different from a simple data-synchronization method without the need for a strong authentication method.
>>13
Great! That's all I needed to know, that trivia on if anyone knows it.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 15:29

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 15:30

>>14
that trivia on if anyone knows it.
Thank you for letting me participate.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 15:31

>>12
the distributed game server without a central hosting client I've never seen tried
You must not have done a basic internet search for the concept then, since I (who know nothing about game design at all) have found research from over a decade ago, with games like Quake as the foundation, that fits your exact criterion. Try looking up ``Colyseus'', for example, or ``A Distributed Multiplayer Game Server System'' by Cronin, Filstrup, and Kurc for an earlier treatment.

My main focus is in analysing less known of, experimental or controversial game design proposals.
Don't put on airs. Your blog is about ideas that you think sound cool, and about which you've done very little research beyond thinking about it for an hour or so, and maybe reading a few Wikipedia articles.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 16:17

>>14
Then stop writing bullshit and start implementing your epic ideas?

What are you, a philosophy major?

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 16:36

>>18
Like I've said there many times, these ideas are hard to implement.
I prefer writing down them first, being very detailed in it, and then trying to implement them for not wasting time. Plus, it could help other people figuring out how to do it.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 16:37

>>19
so as to not waste time*

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 16:43

>>15
Thanks for those links! Still, I haven't seen one implemented and making it into the industry.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 16:52

>>17
You must not have done a basic internet search for the concept then
I did not know any of these, are they open-source or proprietary? They must not be very popular.

Don't put on airs. Your blog is about ideas that you think sound cool, and about which you've done very little research beyond thinking about it for an hour or so, and maybe reading a few Wikipedia articles.

Think what you like. But I intend this to be a long process, exhausting the possibility of details the best I can. Expect me.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 17:32

>>19-22
1) Stop fucking double-posting (or quad-posting, in your case)

2) Actually, just stop posting.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 18:46

>>21
https://github.com/NetEase/pomelo
Made in chode.jizz.

Fuck off and do some actual programming instead of blogging on your Github.

Also, you forgot your
Array('',0,'zero','nuthinglolXD') ======= 'null'})();
}());
}())}();
()};

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 19:19

>>24
I said making it into the industry, are you blind?
I still haven't read that, but if you have actually successfully implemented it and it isn't just a ruse, I must say congratulations.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 19:23

>>23
I'm sorry, I like responding to one post at a time. Like you'll see in my commit history, I'm a submit-junkie.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 19:25

I'd also like to automate that somehow. I think I waste so much time writing "git add ." and "git push".. I'm sure it must be easy to implement, and I'll try looking into it this week.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 19:46

>>25
Define ``industry'', Mr. Javashit kike.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 19:58

>>26
I don't care about your software development style. This is not a commit log, don't treat it like one.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 20:39

>>26
You think we care about your enterprise good practices? Why don't you stay on your Github.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 20:57

>>28
It must be popular and bring in some actual money. It must be talked about at gaming news sites and maybe even win some prizes or recognition.
And by actual money I don't mean random donations. In my view, Dwarf Fortress is not an example of making it into the industry.
It is not needed to be proprietary, just to have a DRM of sorts that would force the user to pay to play it somehow.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-14 22:57

OP is a gay nigger.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-15 0:15

>>32
No, I'm not black, and although I do sometimes find men attractive, I still prefer women and would never have homosexual sex.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-15 10:26

Alright guys, I know you told me not to link to specific files, but please check out my section on productivity: https://github.com/affiszervmention/permadeath/blob/master/PRODUCTIVITY.md

I really think it is evolving into something beautiful, it should get a place in a /prog/ sticky of sorts, I really do think so.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-15 10:59

>>34
Congratulations, your blog reads like a typical Hacker News submission!

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-15 11:53

>>35
Thanks! I read a lot of the joelonsoftware blog posts and Paul Graham's too, I'm really aiming for dat "productivity enlightenment" so much talked about.
Also, here is my real blog: http://erlangueiro.oapg.org/blog/ (I plan on migrating it soon because wordpress sucks)

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-15 19:59

Such potential for this troll, keep feeding him and he may do great things.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-15 20:35

>>37
calling me a troll because I don't give up on arguing so easily
Thanks, I guess.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-15 20:37

I mean how could I be a troll with all the content I've created?

I'd really need to have no life.

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-18 15:45

tdavis created a gamedev site?

Name: Anonymous 2014-02-20 0:10

>>40
Nah, tdavis actually makes things.

Name: Anonymous 2020-05-22 13:18

lol

Name: Anonymous 2020-05-22 13:42

Check out this sick claw! How did you do it, OP?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wxv76a4Xod4

Name: Anonymous 2020-12-30 4:12

check 'em!!!!!

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